Specialist Music School

[curlew]

Our best non-selective Secondary School is hugely oversubscribed and we are outside the catchment area. The school takes 10% of its intake on "mucical ability" My dd is going to have a go at getting a place - she has played the clarinet for 18 months now and although she hasn't taken any exams yet, her teacher says she is at grade 3 level and she will take the exam early next year. She also sings - has always sung solos at nativity plays and things since reception. However, the school gets 200odd applicants for 18 places, so I know that realistically she has very little chance of a place. Has anybody got any advice for me about how to prepare her for the audition, both musically and in terms of the almost inevitable disappointment? Any contributions gratefully received!

Sonia -it's a nightmare, isn't it? We're doing the Kent test even though dd is a borderline candidate because she is absolutely desperate to go to Simon Langton. I have my doubts - but the music and dance is so good there I know she'd be happy if only she can cope with the work. It sounds odd, doesn't it - my daughter is perfect for every aspect of your school - except the actual academic work! Oh well, we can only try. And if she doesn't get Fulston or Langton she'll go to the Abbey in Faversham, which has a new Head and which I think is very much on the up. Not my ideal choice, but I think she'll be OK there. Where else have you thought about?

Curlew,
We have Canterbury High, then St Anselms and Archbishops not much chance of last 2 as it we are not church goers and couldn't get our form signed by the Vicar but went for 3 Canterbury schools as have been told it should strengthen our appeal for Canterbury High if he doesn't get in.
TO be honest we weren't keen on the Abbey, Sam didn't like it either. I know it has a new head but would its reputation goes along with it and Sam had already said he wasn't going there. He may yet though as it is our local school!! If we don't go there with Sam I will still go bk with my daughter in 3 years time and see what it is like then. I am sure it is on the up. Seems a shame though that schools have to get to such a level b4 anything is done about them.
Look at Canterbury High ~ it was the Frank Hooker and you didn't send your dog there let alone your child. If you had told me 10 yrs ago that I would be trying to get my child into Frank Hooker I would have gone mad. Strange old world isn't it,
Where do you live? We are between Boughton and HErnhill,
Sonia

He's 18 now so I can't remember his pieces. His father was director of music at his prep school and I'm very musical so I'm sure all that helped. He would have been doing French and latin at school. There's no reason why children of 11 can't sing in foreign languages. Some state schools might think the poor little darlings can't be taxed with languages but private schools know better. My brother, sister and I all did graed 8 singing on the same day which was amusing. My brother's voice had broken by that stage (he's the youngest). He got distinction, I got merit and my sister a pass. A long time ago. My oldest daughter did grade 8 singing too when she was 16. By the way on university entrance it can help some people because you get UCAS points for associated board exams grade 6 and above.

The hardest thing for younger ones over gdade 5 is that you have to pass grade 5 theory for AB exams so you need to put in the hard work to get through them although I liked music theory myself.

Sonia - we're on the other side - between Faversham and Sittingbourne. Our local school is Sittingbourne Community College. (over my dead body!) I reckon the Abbey will be all right - the new Head is hugely energetic and committed, and from a purely cynical point of view, I think that for the next few years any grammar school just-misses will get lots of attention because they'll want to get their results up. At least that's what I tell myself in the dead of night when I'm chewing the carpet over the decision!
Kate

That's fine but I thought, perhaps wrongly, that the person asking the question of whether a treble of age11 of 12 could really have passed grade 8 singing exam due to singing a son in another language was doubting the truth of what I said. My ex husband got children into private schools with music scholarships every year from his school and it tended to be those who were clearly quite talented and usually they had grade 6 but sometimes even 7 violin etc if they were very good indeed. The schools don't need the very highest grades but usually there's some minimum level like 2 grade 5s or something like that. The children at mass who are very little manage latin in the Catholic churches I go into and it's very good for them.

Dd1 was singing Latin and Italian pieces in the school choir from Y5 upwards at her frankly quite rough inner-London Catholic primary school. They used to perform 'Panis Angelicus' and various bits of Handel during feast day masses in the parish church.

Xenia, for someone who has no actual experience of the state sector, you make a lot of assumptions, and it comes across as patronising. Unless you're actually intending to patronise and offend people it would be helpful if you could tone down the attitude.

Ds1 is learning to sing in Swedish in his state school Yr1!

I vowed that I would never engage with Xenia - but I really can't let this go. My daughter is a regular soloist in the excellent choir at her state primary school. She - and the rest of them - sings confidently in French, Latin, Italian and on one memorable occasion, Swahili. I really find it hard to believe that private secondary schools demand Grade 5 in at least 2 instruments - my brothers and I were all musical children and my brothers were choristers and neither of them had Grade 5 at anything at 10. I think they must have been 13 or so before they got there. Backward, I know......it must have been the expensive private educations we had that let them down.....

Agree with you Kate,
I don't think grading shows anything other than opportunity sometimes anyway.
Some children have talent but not opportunity and others have opportunity but no talent or passion and just sing or play an instrument thorugh repetition rather than love of music.

curlew, I just did a 2 second internet search and this is for Oundle school. That is similar to my children's schools but that's the minimum. So if you're fighting for a place with your 1 grade 5 at 10 and other are much more talented and have higher grades then obviously they are likely to get the place as it's competitive. Neither of my daughters got music scholarhips at age 11 despite having piano, singing, theory and another instrument exams at that age. I can't remember their grades; probably grade 5 theory certainly, grade 5 singing and they did a grade a year in piano from about age 7 so probably 4 or so and then their principal instrument.

Look I didn't start this on here - someone doubted my son could have grade 8 at age 12 and he did. I was just showing that he had.

"Music Scholarships
11+ entrants
Junior Music Scholarships

Two awards of up to 25%

Awards are made on the basis of audition and interview. Candidates usually offer two instruments, at least one at Grade 5 or higher although it is not necessary to have taken the Associated Board exam. Parents and schools of prospective candidates are urged to contact the Director of Music in advance.
13+ entrants
Music Scholarships

Ten scholarships of up to 50% of School fees, including the Junior Organ Scholarship.

Additionally, Scholars and Exhibitioners will benefit from free tuition on one or more instruments during their time at Oundle

Awards are made on the basis of audition and interview; there is no written paper. Candidates usually offer two instruments, at least one at Grade 6 or higher of the Associated Board, although it is not necessary to have taken the exam. They should prepare two contrasting pieces for each instrument. The audition is designed to discover signs of talent and interest as much as to test actual performance; the award of a scholarship is based more on potential than on actual attainment. Ability to sing will be taken into consideration. Special encouragement is given to choristers as one award will be offered each year to a chorister from a cathedral or collegiate school. Further details are available from the Director of Music who will be pleased to discuss matters with parents or music teachers, who are invited to visit him at Oundle.

There will be a training day for potential scholars on Thursday 30th September 2004. This day offers training in various musical skill and enables pupils to participate in master classes, when performance is assessed and advice is given so that they may present themselves with greater confidence at the auditions."

Xenia, for heaven's sake, the OP is not after Oundle or North London flippin' Collegiate, she's looking at the possibility of her dd getting a place at a state school with a small number of specialist music places on offer.

Curlew, FWIW, I know quite a few children who've gone down this route over the past few years, and the expected standard varies hugely depending on how over-subscribed the school is, and how many of the music applicants would qualify for places under the normal (ie. non-music) criteria. In London there are a few comprehensive schools with specialist music places that are so in demand that you probably do have to be Young Violinist of the Year to get in. But I know several people who've been awarded specialist music places at good and over-subscribed schools on the basis of having a reasonable level of musical experience (ie. having had instrumental lessons for a year or two, possibly acquiring a grade or two on the way), showing commitment to musical activities (singing in the choir, joining percussion group) and presumably having a certain level of potential (not sure how they tested that, though).

So IMO worth a punt, as long as you can make it clear that the odds are long and it doesn't reflect badly on her if she doesn't get a place.

hth

this is interesting XENIA for Habs there is NO MINIMUM GRADE requirement for scholarships

IMHO I think curlew your DD should give it a go and see what happens, if you don't try you don't succeed

Good luck to her

I think you'll find though that the competition is still tough though. They're not specifying a minimum, but they'll be expecting similar grades.

oh my friend has two girls at the purcell school, and habs is near me.

CURLEW

THIS IS WHAT I THINK YOUR DD WILL BE DOING

Further Information about the Test of Musical Aptitude

The test consists of 60 questions of four types: Pitch, Melody, Texture and Rhythm.

Pitch: for these questions, candidates listen to two sounds and have to indicate whether the second sound is the same as the first, or whether it is higher or lower. There are twenty of these questions and some of the pitches are less than a semitone apart.

Melody: for these questions, candidates listen to two tunes consisting of five notes. Candidates have to decide whether the second tune is the same as the first or if one of the notes has been altered. If there is a change, candidates will be expected to identify which note has been altered, by giving the number of the note. There are ten questions in this section.

Texture: for these questions, candidates listen to a number of notes played together at the same time; this is called a chord. Candidates need to decide whether or not each chord has two, three or four notes. There are twenty questions in this section.

Rhythm: for these questions, candidates listen to two patterns of notes and have to decide whether the second pattern is the same as, or different from, the first, and where any difference occurs. Each rhythm will be four beats (or pulses) in length. There are ten questions in this section.

It is a written test listening to a recording while sitting in a hall with about 50 + other children

iyswim

There won't be anyone at Habs or NLCS who has got a music scholarship in the last 10 years without at least 2 grade 5s though or done no exams because they're with a teacher who doesn't believe in exams (some don't ) but they play to that level and higher.

I suppose one of my issues is Blair talks about so called specialist this and that schools and yet they seem a bit of a con when you get into what they are meant to be centres of excellence for.

I only got into this thread because someone doubted my child could get the music grades he had. You will be amused to learn he's only kept up on instrument at university, but you give them the opportunities and then they pick from the range of things offered and even if it's world champion at collecting combs they have their thing that they enjoy.

Thank you for all the helpful suggestions and information. We'll give it a whirl - my dd has a very good ear and seems to me (and her teacher, who is probably a bit more objective!) to show quite a lot of musicality when she plays. So we'll see.

Xenia - as others have said, your knowledge of the state sector seems to be drawn from Daily Mail editorials! Yes, of course Chethams offers an exceptional musical education to a chosen few. However, our local music specialist school offers lots of opportunities to musical children - the opportunity to learn up to 3 instruments, to travel abroad to perform, a fabulous music department with lots of hi tec kit as well as plenty of old fashioned instruments.And plenty of highly qualified enthusiastic teachers. Hardly a con. And a way into music for children who don't have the opportunity or resources to reach the dizzy heights your children were lucky enough to attain.

c, that sounds good. I just found some state schools get some title like - specialist technology or sports thing and a lot of gleaming equipment but the basic standard for that sport or whatever is not actually any better than any average grammar school might have achieved. Happy to be proved wrong. Will be interesting to see how many from these music places get to music college at 18 or on to music degrees.

I have to admit, yes, I doubted you, and so does my ds. If your son did get Grade 8 in voice at age 12 he must be exceptional. I know many children who could reach that standard on some instruments but voice is your own body and most children, even trebles are not that technically developed at that age.

I also know that children can sing in other languages at that age, we have had children age 10 singing on the professional stage in Italian opera but Grade 8 requires a very high standard of language and other vocal demands.

My dh will not actually take on an individual singing pupil under 11 years, he advocates group work before that age.

I havn't replied to the OP giving advice on how to prepare her dd for a place at a state school with specialist places as I have no experience of that but I wish her the best of luck.

My dh attended a failing state school, started his first instruments (piano and tuba) at age 14, started voice at age 16 and got into music college as a singer.

Of course his musical opportunities were more limited and I am hoping for more for my own dd but I think your attitude is quite patronising to some very talented youngsters in the state system.

Interesting, Xenia - which specialist technology and sport schools have you visited?

RTKangaMummy - I've only just seen your incredibly helpful post - I don't know how I missed it. Thank you - that's just the sort of thing I needed to know! Thank you!

You're welcome

This was the same test for the grammar and comp all the children did the test together it didn't matter where you had applied for or which order you put the schoool

SO it was completely random where the test was held

I hope she does well

If they did well they did an audition on whichever instrument they chose

It could be anything from recorder to sitar to piano

Just about GRade 8 singing - when I did Grade 8 voice, there were two exams - voice and singing, and I think singing was for either younger children, or less developed voices - it was a bit more folk song based, iirc, whereas voice was more like 'trained' singing, so I guess a younger child could do a higher grade in this.