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Education

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Original poster

Help Scottish Mnetters and scottish teachers, please reassure me I haven`t made a terrible mistake!

50 replies

figleaf · 27/10/2006 10:47

Some of you have been kind enough to discuss my forthcoming move to Scotland due to DH relocation. We have bought a lovelly house in Alloa and sre due to move in on 16th Nov. We visited the local school yesterday (I have 2 boys Age 5 asnd 8). We liked the head and the school seemed reasonable well resourced/looked after etc and we took away uniform list, various forms and the school brochure.
I`m looking through it now and there are stats I dont understand but I think they look bad. Can someone give me an honest opinion please...

Reading - School 61% LEA 79.6
Writing - School 49 LEA 75.6
Maths - School 57 LEA 81.5

Is that acceptable or rubbish?
There are a few schools in Alloa and we chose this one because its HMI report was Fab. Everything was judged in the top 2 categories ie nothing in the Fair or Poor categories.
What shall I do , obviously I'm worried about everything at the moment and it doesnt help that I dont really understand the Scottish education system but these results dont look good do they?

OP posts:

taMummy · 27/10/2006 12:49

I would go in and ask to see what the top of the P1s are reading, and what they're doing in maths. If you think ds would be bored stiff then go with P2, if not I would insist (bearing in mind that he will be at least 2 months younger than the youngest in the class, and up to up 10 16 months younger than the oldest. I think what the woman you spoke to said sounds reassuring, certainly, but I would go and look at a few other schools just to put my mind at rest. Weren't there some MNers who had experience of the schools you've been looking at?

Littlefish · 27/10/2006 13:01

I wonder whether they are suggesting putting your ds into P2 because their standards are currently low, and therefore, if he went into P1, he would be too far ahead of his contemporaries.

Original poster

figleaf · 27/10/2006 13:57

DH has come home from work and we are making appointments to see another 3 schools.
Head from the local school still not rung back.

OP posts:

tassis · 27/10/2006 14:04

My ds is born in April and he'll start P1 at 5. No question. Most of the wee ones in P1 will have done 2 years at pre-school nursery (which is often attached to the school) and is play based. I would definitely get your son into P1 if I were you (will be interesting to see what other schools say).

As far as the stats go, personally I'd be more interested in ethos and a decent headteacher than stats.

Good luck!

Original poster

figleaf · 27/10/2006 15:55

Spoke to the head of the local school (Park Primary). She was very reassuring. She says she is aware of the problems that the school has and feels that she is on track to show significant improvements over this school year and again in the next. She thinks that my oldest will not be held back in achieving his potential and that by the time the little one has got too far into the school it will be a different place.
She seems so believable.
Dh and I have appointments to see 2 schools on Monday (the 3rd doesn`t have room for our oldest) and we have the flights etc booked. If we choose either of them it would be as a placing request though. I guess we just have to go and look at them then weigh everything up.
I feel like a dreadful Mummy who has been sucked into a lovelly property and its location and misjudged the most important thing to the kids.

OP posts:

nailpolish · 27/10/2006 16:04

you have no reason to feel dreadful

i think the local school sounds fine

the scottish education system is envied far and wide

the exam system especially (so im told!)

Original poster

figleaf · 27/10/2006 16:37

Thanks nailpolish.I am feeling a tiny bit better.

What do you think of the stats?

Reading - School 61% LEA 79.6
Writing - School 49 LEA 75.6
Maths - School 57 LEA 81.5

OP posts:

nailpolish · 27/10/2006 16:41

i really dont know figleaf, i have nothing to compare it to

my dd1 will be starting school in august, where we live there is only 1 primary school close by

i havent looked at the stats, even if they were bad, there wouldnt be much i could do about it!

but the head herself has said she knows they can be improved upon, so maybe they have increased her budget, resources etc

still think you should consider p1 and p4 for your children

my dd1 goes to pre-school, after speaking to my english friends and comparing, pre-school here is the same as reception in england

dd1 is 4 btw, will not be 5 til oct 2007. she will start p1 in august

nailpolish · 27/10/2006 16:42

when i say "the head" i mean the head you spoke to

Original poster

figleaf · 27/10/2006 17:51

I have to go now but I know I would have had a much worse time were it not for MN and my DH today. Can everyone cross their fingers for us on Monday - thanks

OP posts:

seb1 · 27/10/2006 18:23

Figleaf my DD is in P2 and I couldn't tell you that stats for her school up here you just tend to go with catchment area

mears · 27/10/2006 18:32

You know what - I hate league tables- they really do not show what is happening at school at all. My children's school is not faring as well as other secondary schools in a nearby local town, but what the tables don't tell you is that there a a lot of children receiving private tutoring in the other schools.

Please do not be swayed by league tables - go by what your gut feeling of the visit to the schoold tells you.

BTW - I am Scottish

MrsMuddle · 27/10/2006 18:39

I agree with seb1. I've no idea what the stats for my kids' school are. They're in p6 & p7, and they go because it's their local school. There are many others in the area, but I felt it was really important for them to be able to walk to and from school on their own and be able to walk to their schoolfriends' houses. Obviously, if I'd had a bad feeling about it when I went to the open day, I might have looked into sending them elsewhere. You were happy with the school you'd chosen until you saw the stats. Without meaning to sound rude (which means I probably will!), I think emphasis on school stats is a much more English way of choosing a school. If you like the head and the school's ethos, I'm sure your children will be happy there. Oh, and I'd choose p1 and p4, too. Let us know what you decide.

CMac · 27/10/2006 18:44

I have a relative who used to teach in a few Alloa primaries. She's been retired for 8 years or so but still lives in the area and says that the school she would recommend in Alloa is St Johns (it's non-denominational btw). Not sure if that's one of the one's you're going to see or not. Hth.

Mellowma · 27/10/2006 18:45

Message withdrawn

Creole · 27/10/2006 21:25

To be honest, I won't look at just one year figures and base my decision on that. You want to be looking and judging a school by looking at a timeseries of data (say, their sats results over 5 years). You also want to look at absence rates, free school meal eligibility, exclusion rates etc and most importantly, visiting the school and speaking to parents.

Good luck in your decision.
Oh, I'll only use ofsted report as a guide and that's it.

Gillian76 · 27/10/2006 21:34

I'm going to be blunt, but I really think you are taking the English way of 'selecting' your school a bit too far here. League tables and stats are definitely not the be-all-and-end-all. In a lot of cases, they actually mask a lot of the good work that is done.

5 year old absoultely and definitely without question I would have in P1.

MrsMuddle · 27/10/2006 22:03

Creole, I'm interested to know why you'd look at free school meal elegibility rates. Would that influence your decision? Not meaning to be controversial - I'm just genuinely interested to know. In Scotland, children generally go to the school that their home is in the catchment area for, unless the parent puts in a placing request for a school elsewhere, so we don't have to select a school and apply for it, as it seems you have to do in England. (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong!)All these threads wbout filling in application forms, pretending to be religious, placing schools in order of preference etc etc, and being "selected" (or not!) are a real eye opener for me!

Creole · 27/10/2006 22:22

MrsMuddle, working in education I have heard this a lot of time that it is better to put your child in a low FSM school than a high one.

So just last week, I was working on some timeseries data on FSM for secondary schools and what I found was, schools with high FSM eligibility tend to have low attainment rates and high exclusion rates (behaviour problems).
There was one school in Inner london with about 80% of the pupils on FSM. For the past 5 years this particularly school had well below average GCSE results with seriously high exclusion rates - this was not an isolated case. Shocking or what?

I think this is something that is well known though! High deprivation = low attainment.

MrsMuddle · 27/10/2006 23:42

Thanks, Creole. The FSM stats you mentioned referred to secondary school - do you think it makes a difference in primary school, too? I'm glad my DSs are older! There seems to be so many things to take into consideration now - things that just weren't an issue (or maybe they were but there wasn't MN to bring them to my attention!) seven years ago. Why do you all think it is that the Scottish people (me included!) on this thread have all more or less told Figleaf to ignore the stats? Could it be that we don't seem to have as much varience between "good" and "bad" performing schools in Scotland, or is it that we don't have the same culture of choice in education as there is in England?

Original poster

figleaf · 31/10/2006 14:56

We have gone for P1 and P5. Im a happier Figleaf today. We went for a neighbouring school to our official "local school" but its only a little over a mile away from our new house. It "felt" better to both DH and I. Its results are better than the other school but only up to the avarage for the LEA. Gosh I love MN, always there to consult!

OP posts:

taMummy · 31/10/2006 15:08

Oh hurrah figleaf, I was wondering how you were getting on. Hope it works out really well

Original poster

figleaf · 31/10/2006 21:38

OP posts:

Gillian76 · 31/10/2006 21:42

I think a 'feeling' for a school is much more important than its results. Glad to hear you've made your decisions. P1 definitely the right decision imo

CMac · 03/11/2006 21:28

Glad you went for a different school. I didnt like to say in case you went for Park but my relative (who used to teach there, amongst other Alloa schools) said she'd avoid it if it were her (though it does sound as though they are trying hard to rejuvinate the place and getting results which is really promising for the future).

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