Is a good prep school really worth the money?

[theprefectmother]

My dd has got a place at a selective prep school. I am delighted, but also very nervous. I'm nervous about committing ourselves to this expense for the next 7/8 years.

We live in the South East in a tiny 2 bed house. Hubby and I are pretty frugal and aside from our house, this will be the biggest expense of our lives. Her sister will also hopefully get a place, so will be paying around £25k a year for both of them (gulp).

It was either this or use all our savings to get a bigger house, but we fell in love with the school and I wasn't as inspired as I thought I would be by our local village primary.

I am 90% sure we ARE making the right decision. I suppose the reality of shelling out all that money has finally hit me and I am just a little nervous.

So, is a good prep really worth it? We hope dd will either get a place at a grammar school afterwards or we may spend the remainder of our life savings on private secondary for them both.

Our outgoings will be trimmed, but not to an uncomfortable point. We can afford it, but if we didn't send them private, we could have a much bigger house, lovely holidays, a better car etc. I'd like to hear from those that have chosen to sink their money into their dc's education or those who have decided to spend it elsewhere.

Thank you.

Depends really.
Eldest - state primary, state secondary - now a FY2
Middle -state primary, state secondary - medical student
Youngest -music scholarship.
Not sure how a private education would have been of much benefit .

Both dh and I went to state primary and the private secondary without any issues (well dh had issues fitting in but that was to do with being a very working class boy at a very middle class school). I'd save the money for later because if your dds don't get into the grammar school you really may need to educate them privately (assuming the grammar isn't a superselective and that the other secondary schools suffer).

If we had stayed in the UK we expected to move our children from state primary to an independent secondary. Our local friends sent their children to a variety of schools and I couldn't really see a huge difference in outcome (the wrap around care was great at the private school). At 25k a year for two children for four years you are looking at a huge cost, just think of what else 100k could go towards! Do you want to stay in a tiny house and live very frugally for the foreseeable future?

As always though it's about the alternatives, what would your children/family lose if they go to the village primary and what would they gain? If it's worth it to you, even given the opportunity cost, then it's worth it.

Rita you like many others are erroneously assuming that for all parents paying for education is about measurable results and measurable university/career outcomes.mim not denying that for many it is but not for all.

So if you are paying for your DC education you dont think they will do well ! Really ? I would expect they would do as well as their state counter parts .

My experience is that my state educated DC did better than their privately educated GF/BF .

Rita I am sure that this is not what you mean but you seem be saying that all that matters in how you view your DCs are their career achievements so far.

Lots of very successful DCs from state system nobody would argue with that.

I get the impression from the OP (could be totally wrong) that she is considering the prep school for it's educational benefits - ie getting her dds into grammar school. So the value for money should come primarily from educational advantage, which is what Rita was talking about.

To find out the OP should probably look at the stats from both the prep and the grammar school and see where the prep pupils go on to and where the grammar children come from.

Obviously I expect my DS to do well in terms of exam results and go onto university etc etc and if this is your only measure of educational success he would probably have done as well at our excellent local state schools.
So for me in my location/situation if that is all I wanted from education then you're right when you say "not sure how a private education would have been of that much benefit".
But as I've said before we all want different things from education that doesn't make me a better or worse parent that you Rita just a different one with different expectations.

OP be careful when preps claim "100% success at the 11+" into grammar schools. We used to live in a county with grammar schools and friends sent their Dc's to these preps known as "crammers for the grammars" what they don't tell you is that this is achieved by only allowing those children who are going to pass sit the 11+. Borderline children don't get a look in and usually end up and independent secondary schools.

Thank you for all your advice and thoughts. Just to answer a few questions:

DD would be leaving at 11, not 13.

We wouldn't be preparing for CE, all the independent secondary schools round here start at 11.

No, it's not for exam results that we're paying, hence why I'm so nervous. I suppose we are spending thousands on the 'luxury of extras' and no, I'm not talking about the manicured lawns - they're actually not that impressive!

It feels alien as DH and I were state educated and we expected dd to be, but she now isn't going to be. It wasn't part of any 'plan' to privately educate our children, we just felt so flat after looking at the primary in the village. It was either sit for her some of the assessments at some of the local preps or move house so we'd be in catchment for another primary, which I didn't have the inclination to do.

This is a really special school and I'm not prepared to pay for prep, just because it's a private school ifkwim? There were preps we looked round that I, quite frankly, thought were a complete waste of money. Dd's school is everything and more for a number of reasons - too many to describe, but the teaching, the way they teach, the extras, class sizes, etc.

Leavers' destinations - yes, I asked for them all going back 5 years from every school we looked at. I would say the majority at dd's school go onto independent secondary, around 20% grammars.

I would love to be (who wouldn't?) in the position where she sat all the entrance exams for the grammars, passed them and then we could decide what would be the better option - private secondary or grammar. I know at one of the preps one of the heads openly said that a percentage of their students don't get into the grammars and it's easier to 'get them in' to the private secondary schools as he can call the school and speak direct to the head about said student. I was pleased to hear that as it showed the 'purity' of the grammar school selection process.

I suppose I'm asking is the prep school too much of a luxury as she may end up at a grammar school, rather than private secondary? Then I suppose you could start a whole thread about which is better: grammar or private secondary, as reading that comment back infers I think the grammar is inferior, which isn't actually true at all.

A part of me thinks though, the house can wait and we should just live for the moment and give them amazing experiences and opportunities in their early years which will hopefully stand them in great stead for the future. OK, it's not as extreme as this, but I would hate to live in a beautiful house, but have my girls go to a uninspiring primary where they weren't flourishing and not particularly happy.

happygardening - thanks for your insight, particularly the last comment. Utterly convinced this isn't the case at dd's school, but something to be totally aware of.

Ive spent many years in independent ed and nearly all my friends children are in independent ed as well, most are at big name boarding school but a few are at shall we say more normal independent schools so I'm speaking from extensive experience when I say what I'm about to say. Realistically assuming you don't hate it within the first few weeks you'll have a honeymoon period about a year to 18 months and then you'll start to see to see that it's not quite as wonderful as you were told/thought it was. This is simply because no where is perfect, so the question is will you mind? What about if those "extras" that your paying for aren't quite what you thought they were going to be; many will say this is not uncommon. Schools are very clever marketing machines, it's very common to come away from a visit believing that it's "really special" that the way they "teach" "the class sizes" and "the extras" are "special" but unless it's not a conventional school e.g. Steiner then frankly most teachers teach in a similar way, all schools in both sectors will have the good bad and average teachers, this is life, class size in prep schools are usually small but I have this gut feeling that small classes although obviously good in many ways are also not so good in some ways.
Basically OP the term caveat emptor applies as much to schools as it does to used cars. I'm not saying don't do it, neither am I saying it's a bad school, it's probably a very good school and you're right you should live for the moment because you don't know what's round the corner, and of course you want you DC's to flourish and be happy and who needs a 15 bedroomed house, and three luxury holidays a years and a couple of £70k cars sitting in the drive; I regard these as things I can easily live without, of course some would regard channeling your cash into education as "too much of a luxury" and something that in 2015 is unnecessary or even unethical. But you just need to be realistic; just because you stumping up 25k+ PA from your savings and living frugally it doesn't mean that every aspect is going to be what you hoped.
Finally I'm sure you are aware of this but often senior school fees are considerably more expensive, can you afford this? Or would moving now into an area with more acceptable schools be better for you long term? I'm no economic forecaster so can't predict future interest rates or house prices but I do understand that now is a good time to get brilliant deals on mortgages; just something to think about.

I agree with happygardening.

The answer to the original question "is it worth the money" depends on your circumstances because unless you have such a high income that the fees are negligible you are always going to be balancing the cost against the (perceived) gain over state schools.

For me personally there is certainly a threshold above which I probably wouldn't pay, because we would have to live too frugally, i.e. we could pay for 2 DC at 35k+ PA boarding schools but to do so we would have to downsize and live very simply indeed. By contrast we can pay for 2 DC at top 20k PA secondary day schools without making such sacrifices. We know other people on similar incomes who say they can't afford private schools at all, but have fancy cars and luxury holidays; this is personal preference.

I probably wouldn't send to private primary under your circumstances but instead save the money so that private secondary is an option, if required. (BTW I wouldn't call grammar selection "pure" - it is based on performance on one day, and there are often anomalous passes and fails. Private schools can use a lot more information in making their decisions and there are far fewer anomalies - but of course they are often less over-subscribed than the state alternatives.)

HG speaks sense, but I will say we're still waiting for the end of our honeymoon, seven years into a good prep school. And are by no means naive or easy to please. Some schools just are that good. If you've found one, then yes, it's worth it.

bcaresthe four years into DS2's senior school we're still very happy (I'm less happy about the money I spent at our particular prep) although of course there are a few niggling little things Id change. But if youre living very frugally, obviously one mans frugal is anther mans living well, and spending all you saving you have to decide are those little niggles going to annoy you and make you query your decision.
The one thing I did learn at prep level is that change in a head or other key staff can have a significant impact on ethos school, structure etc. Much more so than at a large senior school with 100+ teachers and loads of other staff. It's so much harder to change ethos, structure etc over night in a large ancient well established over subscribed senior school. This of course could be a bad thing but assuming you like what you see, I think you can assume that its unlikely to change that dramatically in the time you DC's are going to there. Whereas when the head of my DS's prep school retired and senior management staff retired/moved on the ethos changed enormously.
Look at the current head, management team etc OP do they look close to retirement, or are they ambitious and looking for the next move? Always hard to know but see if you can find out how long they've been there, heads do move around, they often seem to do stepping stones; starting at a small unknown school making changes and gradually working their way up to bigger more established schools, or going off to run preps HK or else where, just something to think about. If you can find out the ages of their children, those with prep school age children are probably less likely to leave but those with older children at senior school or certainly those with grown up children have less ties. A friend who's a head at a well known grammar once told me that research shows that heads become less effective after 10 years and after 15 many are definitely past their sell by date. Stand in the nearest playground at the end of the day or go to the nearest ghastly padded gym place and talk to a few mums, there's always gossip of course but you might be surprised about what you hear.

I would hate to live in a beautiful house, but have my girls go to a uninspiring primary where they weren't flourishing and not particularly happy.

If that's your attitude, and it's a perfectly sensible one, you should go with the private choice. IME, a good private prep is a good investment and you seem pretty convinced about this one.

For me the main difference between private and state (dcs have been at both and the state school was lovely) is much higher expectations of the pupils from staff. The pupils themselves are stretched by being in (friendly) competition with each other.

Our DCs are at a boarding prep, the youngest begged to follow his brother at age 7!! I can hear you all gasp in horror but they both love it so much, we scrimp and save to be able to afford it but I wouldn't have it any other way. The quality of education and pastoral care is fabulous. They talk about school all the time, it is not a 'smart' school with fancy buildings or facilities but it has staff who care and a great attitude towards the children.
We did try the local school but there was not enough scope and opportunities for them and they were becoming bored and frustrated educationally and sportingly. At prep schools they are given so many opportunities in everything they do.
If you can afford it, even if it means making sacrifices, IMO it is definitely worth it.
We often laugh that it seems like they are at one long holiday camp as they have so much fun, including the learning!!

I would think very carefully about secondary options and base decisions on that.

If you are in a super selective state grammar area so can't count on getting in, and there are relatively less selective private secondaries (I'd investigate this) I might be inclined to save up cash for private secondary education and possibly if affordable a bigger home (a two bed house with two DC might also be frustrating as DC get older).

If however you are in catchment for a good state comprehensive or the state grammars are "standard" (eg bucks) grammars then I might pay for the prep.

"a two bed home with two DC might also be frustrating as DCs get older"
A very valid point some friends of our did this and it was an absolute nightmare when their DC's became teenagers. I personally think if you have sufficient saving to enable you to buy a three bedroomed house I would do this before thinking about school fees. Of course others may disagree.

Well, my DD went to private from year 3 (non-selective but consistently sending the girls to top senior schools). We had a parent-teacher consultation recently and I was amazed at a vast difference in the level compared to what DS did at his outstanding primary in the same year 3 - the subjects they cover, the extra length they go to, the look of their work books. At DD's school they write a lot: not just in English but in all other subjects, her handwriting and presentation improved dramatically in the space of 6 months, she uses grammatical structures I never knew she was actually aware of, she has developed so many new interests. She is in the top sets in all subjects and has really thrived. So it has been absolutely worth for us.

Thanks again for all the input.

HG: your points are extremely valid and great for me to read as this is my first experience of any type of schooling.

However, she hasn't even started yet, so I have to give it a good old run before assessing whether it's as good as I believe. I have SUCH high hopes for this school and as I said up thread, I'm not paying for prep, just because it's prep.

If for any reason of course, dd wasn't happy, or I felt the school wasn't living up to my expectations; I certainly wouldn't be keeping her there if I didn't feel it was worth every single penny of our hard earned money.

Re: the house, yes that is our current situation, but I don't envisage staying here for the rest of our lives. We would probably stay in current home for another 10 years and then move onto a bigger place. Our salaries will have increased (hopefully significantly!) by then and if we don't choose private secondary, then that's more money for us to put towards our forever home.

Appreciate this thread is 9 years old(!) but I would appreciate any feedback from OP on how it went for you, and others on the thread, sending DC to prep.

We’re in a “naice” part of the country with outstanding state schools (no grammars) but I’ve been underwhelmed by DS’s outstanding state primary and as a summer born boy he’s not coping too well in a class of 30. There’s a well regarded prep in our town, but the fees would be a big stretch and realistically we couldn’t afford the fees of the local big name public school for senior.

Any feedback very welcome! Hope you’ve all been well these 9 years…

Blast from the past... My DS who was at prep school last time I posted went on to a famous senior school (thanks partly to a major scholarship, for which he was excellently prepared by the prep school - worth thinking about that angle @VestaTilley - typically scholarships don't come with much/any money unconditionally off these days, but they do help in securing bursaries where appropriate), and is currently in his third year at Oxford. Yes, prep school was very much worth it to us. Looking back, I'm still grateful for all the things they did right that they could have done wrong. He's grown up into a delightful, balanced, enthusiastic, hard working, sociable, happy young man. If I had had to choose between paying for prep and paying for senior school, I'd have gone for prep, no doubt about it. DS was always a conscientious and self-motivated learner so academically would have been fine throughout, but he was cautious and not a social natural, and really benefited at prep age from the nurture and support to try things he might not have done and find his place in friendship groups etc. By senior age, I think he'd developed enough of those skills that he'd have made his own environment in any school, and so at that level private school was more of a nice-to-have.

I will unhelpfully say : it depends.

Mainly on the fit between the child and the school. Many children would do just fine in either a decent state or prep school, so the money spent on prep is largely unnecessary. For some children an academic prep with specialist teaching, lots of bright kids, and a buzz about it can be a very good fit. For one of our children this was the case. They made the most of every opportunity - we felt we got some value for money. For our other child at the same school, the fit was not good, they opted out of most optional activities. It was a less bad fit rather than a good fit.

The main driver of outcomes at primary is family support. The main driver of outcomes at secondary is peer group. For this reason if you only have enough money for primary OR secondary, it's better to keep the money for secondary, where it arguably makes more of a difference. The grammar school lottery complicates this issue. Grammars are likely to become more competitive as more families are priced out of private, but preps don't always prepare for state 11+ as well as you might suppose.

On the subject of value for money: we made the decision to switch to private about 11 years ago. The end is in sight. Knowing what we know now, both about what you get for your money, and the way fees and VAT have gone, if we had to make the decision now we wouldn't go private. We'd have moved into the catchment of the best state school we could find, then supplemented outside as necessary. Friends with secondary-age children at private towards the upper end of normal ability range also say in retrospect they'd have tried for grammar / good state catchment if they'd known what you get for the money and the way fees/VAT have gone.

A lot of preps are going to struggle under the new VAT regime. Some will close. Make sure the numbers attending are healthy as you don't want to give up your state place, then have the school fold.

Both our DC went to non selective prep from village primary. Massive improvement in sport, art, music, foreign language, history and RE. Quality of teaching in English and maths questionable. Lack of transparency of academic progress compared to state primary.
Dc2 has gone on to grammar school. He was top of his not too bright prep school class but it turns out he hasn't done all the year 6 maths he should have..
So for us sports are important and the kids love it and had a good time but as my dad said it was a bit of a holiday camp. With 20% VAT it's not value for money.