Any thoughts on Bath Spa University?

[doglover]

We've been trawling websites this weekend looking at possible uni courses and locations.

My dd (Y11) is quite taken by this university and their HERITAGE degree course. It seems to combine a lot of her passions - history, museums, communication, cultures etc. - and has a practical work experience element too.

Would this degree be respected?

Any thoughts about Bath Spa as a learning institution?

doglover

Yes, which uni you go to is a LOT more important than what you study.

And I agree with others that studying History of Art at a traditional uni would be better for your DD in the long run.

Difficult seeing the "long run" at that age though...

But if the OP's DD is unlikely to achieve the sort of grades required by an elite university, she needs to consider what lower ranking universities might be able to offer her. Valid work experience is absolutely essential in this sector. You can expect to do voluntary work for at least 2 years (the earlier the better) before even getting the chance of a part-time minimum wage job, and if this is done undertaken in a structured setting as part of a degree course then so much the better.

Postgrad studies are essential if you want a serious career in the heritage sector. We have graduates from Durham, Exeter and Bristol on my MA course at the 'former poly', as well as 3 FdA graduates. Work experience and a willingness and ability to work for nothing/minimum wage after graduation is just as important as academic achievement - working in this sector is akin to a vocation. The pay is shite, even at management levels.

My DS is currently writing his personal statement for university. He took his A levels this year, and I am actively encouraging him to apply to the highest ranking universities. He won't be going to Bath Spa. But he wants to study Modern History and Politics, he's not interested in social or public history (AKA 'Heritage'). And he already has the grades to apply to RG universities.

Yes we did not say non Russell Group universities are useless, just that for a range of graduate jobs and not just being a barrister someone suggested but plenty of others, even the leading advertising agencies, all those PwC graduate recruitment schemes and the like (in other words the good jobs which pay well) the institution does count and much much more than the subject.

But ad agencies, PwC etc are still traditional graduate jobs which I'd hazard a guess aren't going to be offering jobs in the Heritage industry.... If you're going for one of those traditional milk round jobs then where you went will be the difference between a job and no job. But if you're not looking at those roles it won't matter anywhere near as much.

I hate threads like this where ambitious mothers fall over themselves to say that a degree is worthless unless it is a 2.1 or a 1st from a RG university.

Back in the 70s, just having a few O levels marked a 16-year-old out as more intelligent than average. Getting A levels meant you were well above average. 14% of 18-year-olds went into higher education, which I think would include those going to teacher training college as well as those doing CNAA degrees at polytechnics and those at university.

It was accepted that (a) most people could get by in their jobs without the higher level writing/analytical skills a degree brings and (b) employers would provide a lot of training (including day release to poly/college).

For better or ill, those days have gone. Not having a degree at all nowadays rules a young person out of a huge range of jobs. Heading for 50% of 18-y-os are in HE. The great majority of those are not at Russell Group universities or other top-ranked places. Arguably, those at places with entry criteria of BBB or lower are in the same position as people with A levels 30 years ago. They are clearly bright but most of them are not going to be academic high fliers.

So what? Surely we all know from our own experience that being an academic high flier is not by any means a guarantee of having a highly successful working life.

It may be that having a 2.1 from a RG university gets you a wider range of options when you are 21. However, out in the real world it won't be all that long in most jobs before it is completely irrelevant where you studied and what matters is your work CV, references, transferable skills and how you come across in the interview.

This is off topic but I couldn't let it pass.

in their 30s and 40s people will be checked out by others on linkedin to see how high a ranking university they got into

green do people really believe everything they read on people's LinkedIn profiles?

Does she want a career in building heritage? Maybe she should look on the IHBC website to see if the course is recognised. Just a thought.

Bath is great. Your daughter should follow her passions. Sod what anyone else thinks!

(Linked in - on the whole most people tel the truth because you know the HR department will be checking so you won't get the job if you say one thing on linkedin and another on a CV.

I spoke to a very dull and not at all clever man the other week. His linked in profile showed he'd been to a very low grade ex poly.That does not mean of course that some people are not exceptions to the rule.

Greengrow - I imagine he'd still have been rather dull even if he'd been to Oxbridge - going to a university with high entry standards just means one had the ability at 18 to pass A levels with very high marks. It doesn't confer an interesting personality, a work ethic, principles, a cultured and well traveled person or indeed any emotional intelligence. All of which make for much better company at dinner parties.

Come on - your new persona was a definite improvement on the old one, even helpful occasionally -don't slip back into your old rather narrow minded posting style!

[Clink, clink, clink!]

That is the sound of the penny dropping. Thanks, titchy!

I never changed persona anywhere. I am who I am.

It is true I don't like conversations with people are slow and not very clever simply because it's dull and checking which university they went to still generally helps as an extra check to how bright they are.

i was sent someone's job application and exam grades yesterday. He has three GCSEs a C in English, (his highest qualification), and then his D and E in maths and something else. I have not spoken to him. He might be really clever but bad at exams but if you need filters as we all do because of massive volume of applicants or potential suitors or whatever, the university went to remains a good general marker of intelligence.

I am only making sure someone know these things because a lot of schools and parents don't - they think the subject and grades is the only thing that matters and that is simply not true. I certainly agree that after ten years how good you are at your job is hugely important too however and Bath is a lovely place and quite popular with posh-like students actually. The stone work is nice and the crime record low. It's not a bad choice at all but I was just saying it is not on a par with some universities in the sort of pecking order. I agree with the comments above about getting lots of work experience, doing the post grad stuff for "heritage" etc etc.

Gosh, this has become rather intense but reading all your opinions is really enlightening. It's making us discuss and evaluate dds options which is always going to be a valuable exercise.

Greengrow thinks everybody should be a barrister unfortunately not realising that many people would find such a profession beyond dull.

This my way is the only worthwhile way is getting amusingly tedious and as for the I don't speak to anybody without a RG degree how bloody offensive and short sighted.Your loss my dear.

Oh but of course she does lamarseille - the cleaner, shop assistant, taxi driver. She is very familiar with the dull lowly uneducated masses ;)

They couldn't be invited to supper though, far too dull!

I have secured my place at her dinner parties by announcing my Oxbridge/RG MN approved degree on LinkedIn.

A lot of views are being attributed to me which are simply not true. I have never said cleaners are lowly or the masses. I just said some parents are unaware that there is a ranking of universities and not going to one of the higher ones stops certain careers, usually the better ones. I have never said everyone should be a barrister. I do not mind discussing things with people putting words into my mouth is not fair.

I think Bath is a good university for what is proposed and it's in a lovely City, much nicer than those with high crime rates and a lot of people think it's a good one to go to. It is second tier but by no means the worst and it all depends on your A level grades which kind you end up at on the whole. My daughter's friend was with her at Bristol University and she went into fine art - interned at places like Sotheby's . I think having Bristol on the CV helped although she knows she is unlikely to make as much money as most of those she was at university with but that does not matter as she's doing what she loves.

The only point I wanted to make is to make sure parents are aware some universities are regarded better than others in many of the better paid graduate jobs - that's all.

Greengrow, we are discussing Bath Spa University, not Bath University.

There is quite a difference!

True although even Bath is not Russell Group, albeit quite a good university. So we saying it is like the comparison between Oxford University and Oxford Brookes.

A good few women go to the lesser ex poly at good university towns to get to know and meet potential clever men who are at the "real" university in the town - not necessarily a bad move in terms of life chances and future cash I suppose.

Greengrow that very much depends on your subject - if you're after a career in maths, architecture, social work, (...probably other subjects) then Bath is as good as any other.

If you're after a generic degree to go into generic graduate employment, then fair enough, the RG label might matter.

Bath Spa is one of the best for music tech I think?

I went to a Poly and I got a 2:2 in a humanities subject. Cor blimey, d'ya think I is thick? Whoa ladieez.
Actually, I ave done just as well as many of ma homies who got 2 da betta unis.

Yooz may tink zis aint good but i live in a half a million house, send my kidz to private school and I av a nice car ladiez.

I fink I is quite successful cos I still av a brain somewhere. I didn't leave it behind on my school desk.

Of course - it is just that on the whole those at the univerities it is easier to get into with lower grades tend not to be as bright as those who get into the better ones. That does not mean that there are some bright people are the ex polys of course just that employers and others do use institution went to as a filter, however wrong they are to do that along with your A level grades and subjects.

The RG is a self-appointed bunch of institutions that some (principally it seems themselves and Mumsnet) have a bit of a fixation on.

Nobody takes a blind bit of notice beyond the first year or two out of uni, and even then it seriously depends on what field you're going into. People are not checking the LinkedIn profiles of 30+ yo job applicants and dismissing them because they graduated from a former poly (which Bath Spa never was, but ho hum) a decade or two ago.