Why is private education so taboo now?

[DoMyBest]

When I was younger I was privately educated as were most of my friends. Now we all have children and almost all of them have decided to send their children to state schools. Whilst for most of them it was a question of money, for others it really wasn't: they believe that every child should have the same educational opportunities and if parents like them start giving their kids exclusive treatment then the system won't work. Some of these parents chose local 'outstanding' state schools, but one couple with enough money to buy every private school in town admirably chose their worst local state school and work hard to improve it.

I listen to these stories with interest, sometimes admiration but mostly respect for their choices & views.

So it's with some alarm, now we have chosen a private school for our son, do discover the hatred this decision engenders. Private education has, it would seem, become taboo.

So here's my question: is it morally right for people to get angry with parents who privately educate their children?

[RufusTheReindeer]

mintyy

I agree, it's nice to see that the definitions of poverty are ever changing and that I am now officially poor!

Or am I stealing from the poor I'm so confused, if I sent my three to private school I probably would be poor!

[Playfortoday]

Crosseyedcat - yes of course it's wrong to slag off children at private schools as snobs. I just think that some of the criticism of states is quite subtle and implied but nonetheless real and so doesn't get picked up on in the same way.

Tiggytape - I agree about shortages absolutely. But we are the only people who go to our local state on our street and they are all well within distance. Some parents seem to agree with janeinreading's laughable suggestion that it is morally superior to pay.

[Martorana]

[Martorana]

"that's a whole different debate which I'd rather not get drawn in on for fear of being lynched"

Really? Maybe you aren't as circumspect in real life ? Might that be the problem??

[Marmitelover55]

I went to a private school and was teased/told I was a snob quite a lot. In fact I felt really embarrassed about my education. Maybe it's a good thing that we can't afford private education for our DC ? Fortunately we have an outstanding comp nearby which DD started in September, so she won't ever be in this situation. I don't feel as though the marginal benefits would justify the vast expense anyway...

[TheOriginalSteamingNit]

I've read the same views expressed by jane on MN before.

[HolidayCriminal]

Maybe some of you just have horrible judgemental resentful interfering friends. I sent DS private for 2 yrs & no one gave me grief, including some quite poor people I regularly chat to.

[Martorana]

What- actual real life poor people?

[HolidayCriminal]

Poor in pocketbook only. Richly endowed in decency. :)

[Martorana]

That's al right then.

[TruffleOil]

I've never met anyone IRL who has said: I think private education is wrong. I think people say these sorts of things only under the cloak of anonymity.

[hotcrosshunny]

The choices we make for our children are so personal and touch the core of us, hence peoples reactions.

People sent their children private = judging state schools to not be good enough

People send their children state but can afford private = making a political statement and have chips on their shoulders.

I'm being slightly flippant...

We've gone state for our ds and most of his peers will or have gone private. I have been avoiding talking about it because I can sense the reactions of those who pay.

It is funny watching people put the feelers out about schools. I remember having a chat with someone about schools and she didn't even mention private schools. I then overheard her telling someone that she really wanted her kid to go to a particular private school and that state was not an option. Why not just be honest with me!?

I personally wish that the state sector had more resources - this is for the future population ffs.

[DoMyBest]

Martorama, understandable guess but no, that isn't the problem.

[RufusTheReindeer]

What I don't understand on these threads is how some people don't understand about circumstances changing

So for example when we first had three children we couldn't afford to send them to private school, if DH was on the same wage back then as he is now then we could IYSWIM

So someone like jane may well think that once DH started earning a suitable wage we should drag our children out of state school where they have all their friends and are happy and pop them in the nearest private school

[TruffleOil]

I don't know anyone who sends their children to state schools. Not by design, but because I'm an expat and have made 90% of my friends through my children's school and the remainders are single friends, work friends, etc.

There are people in my neighborhood who send their children to the state schools obviously, but they are mostly 15-20 years younger than me and it's a pretty big bridge to gap.

[TheVictorian]

My question is that if everyone went to the same type of school then in the long run it would it make a difference in terms of everyone having the same standard of education when different variables such as quality of teachers, ect are factored into the equation ?.

[JimBobplusasprog]

I harbour some prejudice against private schools if I'm honest. I think it's because the majority of people have been priced out of the option as fees have gone up so much relative to incomes. So a large proportion of the parents who can pay are in banking or sectors that profit from banking. I feel these sectors have some culpability for the widening income disparity in the UK and responsibility for the financial crash. The rest of us have got poorer.

So I think this is where my bias stems from. Despite this we will have one dc in private next year but we can afford it for one child as we get a major bursary in his case.

[DoMyBest]

JimBobPlusaSprog, thanks for being so honest. But isn't it all relative? We can afford private school (just, and for now) but I have friends who are so rich they can afford thing I could never dream of: it doesn't make me angry, far from it I'm happy for them (and curious about their different lives, which I get an occasional glimpse into: it's fun to see).

[Martorana]

"but I have friends who are so rich they can afford thing I could never dream of:"

That's absolutely fine when it's holidays or cars. Less fine when it's a basic civilized right, like education or health care. Even less fine when you're talking about the sort of schools which perpetuate privilege.

[MarriedDadOneSonOneDaughter]

I don't think it is "morally wrong for people to get angry with parents who privately educate their children?". Such people are entitled to such an opinion, emotion and political position. Parents who have enough money to pay fees and children bright enough to pass entrance exams are lucky to have additional choices for their children and should just "suck it up". I am one of those lucky parents. That's my direct answer to your question.

I do think that the idea that "paying fees" makes a better school is totally false - and yet I see parents talking about this all the time (better teachers, better facilities etc etc). Those parents are seeing better outcomes from the school because it has an "entrance exam" not because it has better teaching. In fact, the "better teachers, better facilities" point is incorrect because the "value add" of most private schools is poor to average. They start with a high attaining cohort and mostly get that cohort to where you'd expect them to get. Why would you bother paying for that?

On the other hand, I have never bought the arguments that the private school system either damages the education system at large or that it is critical to the continuing socio-economic divide.

Take the thought experiment of abolishing all private schools (about 5% of all schools). That would mean in a state school classroom of 30, "Tarquin" would represent 1 student. I don't think any of the other 29 student's outcomes will change at all because Tarquin is now in their class. Neither will Tarquin's eventual political actions or social diversity change, because 95% of that comes from Tarquins parents, not from the school. Abolishing private schools would have almost no effect on how the rich behave or how politicians make decisions. Its a falsehood to believe it would.

Finally, if you do think having schools that can select their intake by intelligence and wealth is unacceptable then you can't allow any form of selection and still have your position hold water - i.e. you have to ban grammar schools, faith schools etc too.

Rant over ....

[TruffleOil]

This thread has much of the same views expressed in the recent thread "should private schools be banned".

I don't agree with children having unequal access to education. But exactly how principled to you expect someone to be when it comes to their child's education? If you live in an area with bad schools, and you can afford to send them elsewhere but you don't - isn't this putting your political views before your children?

I'm more than happy to pay taxes to fund better schools, school fees to support bursaries, whatever it takes - but I won't send my children to a bad school.

[wordfactory]

martorana what about basic human resources such as shelter and food?

I suspect you can afford to access a decent standard of both for your DC? Far greater standard than many can?

Why do we not insist that all children have the same access to these things? Why are they so different to education and health?

Arguably, food and nourishment have a far greater impact upon a DC's life thasn education?

[alemci]

I've worked in private and state sectors of education. The PS has more resources and smaller classes and the teachers do have to go that extra mile and it is expected of them. The students want to achieve so give them extra work to mark etc.

Also if you got rid of PS you would have all the extra dc in the state system and by them going private you free up state school places ITMS.

[RufusTheReindeer]

alemci

I agree completely with you in regard to resources and smaller classes

I don't agree with the comments about teachers, obviously I can only go by my experiences but my children's teachers are excellent and most certainly go above and beyond what is expected

[alemci]

the parents at the ps expected it of the teachers and they often had unrealistic expectations because they are paying.

I think there are some excellent teachers in the state system