Why is private education so taboo now?

[DoMyBest]

When I was younger I was privately educated as were most of my friends. Now we all have children and almost all of them have decided to send their children to state schools. Whilst for most of them it was a question of money, for others it really wasn't: they believe that every child should have the same educational opportunities and if parents like them start giving their kids exclusive treatment then the system won't work. Some of these parents chose local 'outstanding' state schools, but one couple with enough money to buy every private school in town admirably chose their worst local state school and work hard to improve it.

I listen to these stories with interest, sometimes admiration but mostly respect for their choices & views.

So it's with some alarm, now we have chosen a private school for our son, do discover the hatred this decision engenders. Private education has, it would seem, become taboo.

So here's my question: is it morally right for people to get angry with parents who privately educate their children?

[middleclassonbursary]

"Do I feel uncomfortable choosing private school?"
My situation is slightly different from many at my DS's school although we still pay (approx day fees). I don't feel uncomfortable because basically I just love the school and what it is and offers. I am aware that we are lucky to be there and I am very aware that my DS has so much more than children in the state sector and I feel sad and concerned that so many children don't have what he experiences, but then I also worry that many living in poverty in their lives outside of education don't all have what he has. If he returned to the state sector it would be a well regarded, very popular comp. or a very well regarded and successful 6 th form college. I very much doubt that his presence at either would make one jot of difference to the school or those receiving a mediocre education else where.

[middleclassonbursary]

I don't agree boom we need excellence in our lives, whether it be education sport music etc? I recently watched the Great British Sewing Bee I'm a dress maker frankly much of what I saw was mediocre but there were some true examples of excellence, things that I can only dream of making, and dream I do, if they can do it and with ridiculous time constraints so can I.
I also ride horses on a few occasions I've watched closely some of the worlds greatest riders, I come away awestruck but inspired can I sit as elegantly as they do, present a horse at a fence so perfectly, probably not in truth but I'm going to try and emulate them.
We need this level of competition.

[TheOriginalSteamingNit]

Here's a good competition, kids: whose parents have enough money for you to come through this door? Oh bad luck, most of you - you lost the competition, but you did need it in your life and I'm sure you feel the better for taking part!

[middleclassonbursary]

Are you deliberately missing my point original top independent schools like top musicians, sewers, artists, horse riders and many others set a standard that others can aim for. I'm never going to ride like Mark Todd or design dresses like Valentino but I still come away inspired with ideas buzzing around in my head, I modify what I've seen to suit my ability, and circumstances including financial. From watching what goes on it state education they are trying to copy some of what the best of the best independent schools offer.

[NCFTTB]

Some children at middle class state schools also live in a bubble. The parents allegedly so morally vehemently opposed to independent schools better hope they don't win the lottery jackpot I always think! Many parents end up paying school fees by default, as their local state school has let them down.

[NCFTTB]

Also agree with others who have said that the wealthy people who idealistically chose a terrible school for their children are doing them a huge disservice. In an ideal world every child would go to their local school perhaps and receive an excellent education but that is simply not the case and education is the one thing you don't take a chance on.

[TheOriginalSteamingNit]

Why would they hope they don't win the lottery jackpot? .

Middleclass I don't think it is as simple as saying they set a standard others can aim for when they exclude the majority of people from accessing this amazing 'standard'. How can you aim for it, if you're not allowed it? I get that you're saying some well-to-do state schools might consider having extension classes or a nicer uniform or something, but I'm not sure how this competition really works when the playing field isn't level. Or indeed, present, in some schools.

[alemci]

Oubliette is your ds like that because she cannot afford the ps option for her dc?

I think your mum should support you. why would you want to send your dc to a failing school. They are more likely to be dragged down there.

[NCFTTB]

I agree - you are doing what's best for your children. Your mum and sister don't get a say.

If someone in the anti-independent schools camp won the lottery, it would subsequently reveal whether their views were idealistically or financially driven.

[LargeBustedMamma]

DC went to state and private schools and I don't recall anyone reacting in an almost violent way! We had a few acquaintances and family members who thought we were snobs for going over to the private sector though. We made the decision because DD was so unhappy at her state school and after two years of attempting to work with the school, we felt enough was enough and moved her. Would have been more than happy to pick another state school if there was one available. We decided to give DS the option of moving to a private school as we didn't want him to feel his sibling was treated more fairly.

I never felt supported in education by my own parents and to be honest it made me more cautious for my own children's education. I really couldn't care a less what others attitudes are. We made the decisions we did because we wanted our children to be happy in their schools and as a whole they were.

[Crosseyedcat]

It really isn't anybody elses business how people choose to spend their money

In the same way as political views/where to live are your own choice!

[Martorana]

"Oh come on martorana you know full well that the expectations/aspirations are different in different wealth groups."

I prefer to use advantage/disadvantage or privilege/lack of privilege- it's more complicated than simply money.

And I was just marking the box- I haven't see it expressed like that before.

[middleclassonbursary]

I watch the best and modify it to suit my situation. I can't be Mark Todd my riding is fairly inept and I lack horse power and my dress making lacks Valentinos sheer eye for design so both are inaccessible for me but I can copy some things that are possible in my circumstances, aspiration for yourself and other in both education, sewing and riding or what ever field cost nothing, dedication costs nothing, the Germans dominated the world of dressage for so many years because of their sheer dedication, we finally woke up and realised this and then won ourselves.
As I said up thread life is not just black and white the haves and the have nots.

[Crosseyedcat]

Martorana - I was at a rough state school in a poor area with very low aspirations for all its pupils. I succeeded against the odds and now am in a senior position. It is precisely because of my experience that I want my child to have the advantage I didn't

[Mintyy]

I'm not haranging anyone ... am I? .

[rabbitstew]

Well, for those who think they can't make a difference, it appears it is thought that school governors have sufficient influence to affect state schools in Birmingham.

As for getting angry with people for not sharing your views on education - it is not my experience that most people get angry about it. If most people did, we wouldn't have so many private schools, would we (if any).

[Oubliette0292]

My DSis probably couldn't afford private school for her DD. However, the state schools in her local area are generally rated outstanding or good. Therofore it is incredibly unlikely that she will ever be faced with the prospect of sending her DD to a failing school.

We were all educated in the state system (my parents couldn't have afforded private). However, myself and my DBro went to grammar school even though we didn't live in the catchment area (so I do think my mother is being hypocritical). Plus we grew up in North Yorkshire, which generally had (and probably still has) good schools even if you did go to a comprehensive rather than a grammar (which DSis1 and DSis2 did).

My mother generally disapproves of me. I work full-time rather than being a SAHM (and to add insult to injury I work in the private sector, not the public sector). I live in the South rather than the North. I don't go to church despite because of my upbringing. I choose to think that all this is her problem and not mine.

[hmc]

It is kind of taboo among my friends. I don't know anyone who can afford private who nevertheless have opted to state educate (except for ks1 and ks2 where we have an OFSTED outstanding village school). Those of us who privately educate aren't exactly vilified by our other friends for it but we have learnt not to talk glowingly about our children's private school (this gets chippy reactions) whereas conversely it seems perfectly acceptable to wax lyrical about how great the local comprehensive is. In fact the safest option seems to be not to mention their schools at all

[boomoohoo]

Martorana, and what underpins privilege / underprivileged, advantaged / disadvantaged? Money!

Middleclass, your aspirations are reflected by your class. A council estate kid is not likely to aspire to be an amazing horse rider! Getting out of poverty is more pertinent, not to mention more time consuming. The fact that we live in a v unequal society perpetrated further by divisive school systems, means that the vast majority of those competing to be 'as good as the best' if not better, are from a privileged background

[mummytime]

Umm plenty of kids on my working class council estate would have loved to have been horse riders, some even had riding lessons.
50% of people wanted to leave, but how they wanted to do that varied (show business, education, marrying rich, small time crime, football etc.).
The other 50% roughly were pretty happy and valued the closeness of living there.
But I guess it was in the South, so could be very different from somewhere in the North.

I think a lot of the way parents react to the private/state debate is based on emotions. "Am I doing the right thing?" "Am I letting my children down?"

BTW some children from failing schools do survive/thrive. When league tables first came out my school was at the very bottom, DH's was just above it. We both ended up doing okay (including degrees from very good places indeed). Would we send our children to the same schools, not if we could help it (although we both had some very good teachers).

[middleclassonbursary]

boom but as I've said aspiration and sheer dedication are required in what ever significant changes you wish to make in your life.
We have Malaysian friends they are stunned by the complacency of the British, they come from grindingly poor families (peasants) they are proud of what they've achieved for themselves (professional occupations educated at the Ivy League) and their DC's. Their parents were desperate for their children to escape their poverty stricken lives.
I've been a governor at two schools and was stunned by the "oh those children come from the local social houses so this is why they can't read very and don't their prep" attitude of the teachers.

[HolidayCriminal]

I suspect OP's parents faced some criticism, too, but they didn't choose to share it with their offspring (why would they?)

"is it morally right for people to get angry with parents who privately educate their children?"

Angry is wrong & stupid. But they have the right to disapprove in other ways without being angry. Maybe it's something in how you present yourself & your choices that gets their back up, OP?

[happygardening]

So much energy us wasted on the independent versus state school education debate. I hope those who so strongly advocate state education and so vociferously oppose independent education and endlessly complain about inequality expend a quarter of this energy trying to make state education better.

[Martorana]

"Martorana, and what underpins privilege / underprivileged, advantaged / disadvantaged? Money!"
Up to a point. But it is more complicated than that.

[DoMyBest]

Will try Wordfactory, thanks!