How many working class or families receiving benefit would you find

[morethanpotatoprints]

In fee paying selective schools?
Or how many do you know?

I'm really referring to those who are one or maybe two steps from the breadline.

If you are one of these families do you think you would mix well with the parents at these types of school?

[NearTheWindmill]

Yes but if you worked you would pay a bigger proportion and pay more of your way. It would be less entitled and I'm afraid if by working I had to subsidize you less that would please me. If you have the intellect to home ed you presumably have the intellect to earn at least 25-30k?

I have checked now and my DC's schools do use fees to subsidise bursaries. I for one don't expect my money to allow other mothers the luxury of staying at home.

The biggest lesson you are teaching your dd, imo, is to take rather than give.

[craggyhollow]

30k?? What planet do you live on??

I live in rural England and to have any chance of earning 30k I'd have to commute to the nearest city

After petrol, tax and childcare I'd have feck all left, let alone enough to pay school fees

[NearTheWindmill]

Depends on the age of the children I think and often feck all in the short-term is worth it in the long term. If I can earn 50k in the public sector, not having gone to uni I'm quite sure someone brilliant enough to home ed can earn an average salary of between 25-30k tbh.

[craggyhollow]

Where do you live?

[GoodnessIsThatTheTime]

Near - doing what?
I've got two good degrees but struggling as a teacher and can't see how on earth is earn that much!

[morethanpotatoprints]

Near
I think the biggest lesson our dc have learned is money doesn't buy you happiness and material possessions aren't important.

My dd belongs to an organisation where some of the children attend the first school I was talking about, some of their parents have the same attitude as you when we came to discussing the particular school.

We decided against it anyway, it didn't come up to the standard we would expect and in the words of dd "I'm not going there they have stripy uniforms and daft hats"

She is still very interested in the other school we visited on Saturday and wants to attend one day. I am glad the parents there including some very rich ones were warm friendly and sociable.

Craggy

We live in the NW in Lancashire. The fees are 23k for day pupils and 30k to board. It is this planet, honestly.

[craggyhollow]

Yes I know I privately educate my kids.

And I work as a matter of fact

But I hate the sneery attitude from high earners about subsidising SAHMS

I live very rurally and it is just not easy for anyone to get jobs, let alone 50k jobs
And it must be nice to be there for your kids and go to matches etc

[loveroflife]

NearTheWindmill - not sure if it's intentional but you're coming across as rather right wing and begrudging of those that have/are entitled to bursaries.

A lot of private schools are charities, they absolutely should be giving places to those that are unable to attend because of financial circumstances.

We're all subsiding each other in life in one way or another and I just can't bear that ghastly assumption of 'I'm paying for everyone else'.

I find your assumption to the OP that "The biggest lesson you are teaching your dd, imo, is to take rather than give" pretty offensive actually.

Let's say the OP's daughter went to private school on a full bursary and turned out to be for e.g a wonderful surgeon that operated on you and saved your life, would you still begrudge her a place then?

Or a teacher that inspired and nurtured YOUR children? Have a little compassion and generosity.

OP - if you want a place and are entitled to it - go for it. Best of luck.

[NearTheWindmill]

Yes it would be nice to be at home with one's children but I don't expect anybody to subsidise me to do so.

I live in london, zone 3, a 25 minute walk from my home so not a london salary except for the 3k LW. Salaries for my role (Snr H R Manager) are the same country wide except for the LW.

My DC attend extremely selective London day Schools - think top 3 for boys, top 20 for girls. Money doesn't buy them in, only ability does. The boys who left my son's school at 13 left for Eton. Winchester and Sevenoaks.

[NearTheWindmill]

I quite agree the child is entitled to the place - I just don't think the parent is entititled to a large bursary whilst not being prepared to work to contribute.

[NearTheWindmill]

And I am well aware that private schools are charities.

[morethanpotatoprints]

craggy

I would have had a job if we had ever have made a slight profit from me working. When we had the 3 dc (2 are grown up now) the childcare alone would have been more than one of our incomes. When we were first together with the older ones little, wraparound care didn't exist.
I do enjoy being a sahm and H.ed dd, but so many people think if you live like this you are a bad person.
The school in question as I said up thread has 90 odd % receiving bursaries and fees are charged on a sliding scale. Their ethos is providing a specialist education irrespective of family income.
I think if we didn't have schools like this the sports, entertainment, art, music industries would be considered only for the elite.

[NearTheWindmill]

If 90% are being subsidised where does the money come from then? Presumably the school can't be entirely independent with charitable status benefitting a minority then ??

[loveroflife]

unless you are caring for children (siblings) who are not in school yet or a family member with a disability, it is unlikely that a school would give a bursary to a parent that chooses to be a SAHM when the children are of school age so the argument about subsidising SAHM's is not valid.

[morethanpotatoprints]

Near

I have no idea. It was on the banner when we visited on Saturday.
It has charitable status and also everyone who goes is entitled to a drama music award, amount depending on income.
So you could look at it another way. If I did work and we had an extra 30k income and that was being spent on the au pair you suggested and the relevant costs of working, we wouldn't be able to afford the fees.
We would be assessed on this extra income but we wouldn't have the money as it would be paying working costs.

I started this thread because I couldn't believe that many shared the opinion of the people I had met in rl, but you have proved me wrong.

I would like to thank those that have been supportive and bothered to try to understand.

[middleclassonbursary]

Morethan take no notice of those who criticise you.
NearTheWindmill many specialist schools which is what the OP seems to be talking about e.g. ballet, music ect subsidise a large number of their pupils. I know the the government makes a contribution to the a Royal Ballet School.

[craggyhollow]

Near than

I earn considerably more than you

Thank god I am not as smug

I am sure you are lovely in real life but your post makes you sound rather chippy

[summerends]

Morethan, looking at if from a different point of view, if your daughter was boarding to go to this specialist school and you could find flexible-time term-time work voluntary or paid would you not want to?
Obviously, in those circumstances, if any extra money one earned could be put directly into the same charity fund that pays bursaries for this school, that would make it all much more straightforward!

[morethanpotatoprints]

summerends

I help my dh in the business whilst I'm around and have done voluntary work in the past when dc were in school.
If we had a higher income due to me working, we would be assessed on the higher income, the fees would be higher and we would be less likely to be able to afford the higher fees, obviously depending on the figures.
I wouldn't be against looking into and trying to find work if dd was at school. Likewise, I would be willing to seek voluntary work again.

[Buggedoff]

I know someone poor who sent her son to an independent school. She was a single mum in a council flat. She did a bit of off the books childminding to help cover uniform costs, but was essentially unemployed. Dad lived overseas and did not help with anything. Her son went to a naice primary school, and the head teacher told the mum about how to go about getting him into the indie secondary. It did rather lock her into staying on benefits though. Had she got a job, it would not have covered the fees, because she would have to cover rent etc. This would mean her son losing his place at school.

This was a good few years ago though. Her son would be in his mid twenties now, and he was one of the last children to get an assisted place.

Another friend's dd has just got a place at my dd's school. She has her full fees paid, plus uniform. Her parents run a fastfood restaurant, and the children do their homework in the back of the restaurant. They are not rich, but not needing the foodbank either.

Usually to get a fully paid up place at a school your child needs to be clever. Really clever. So their smartness is going to be one of the first things that other children notice about them. My dd has a paid place at an indie. She has never been on ski trips etc. Nor have many of her friends. We don't see the need, although we could stretch for it. She has been on a few PGL type trips, but I think these are similar to the kind she did in her state primary.

[summerends]

So NearTheWindmill from that it is clear that morethan would want to work or contribute to wider society if costs were balanced and her DD was at school but understandably not want to fall foul of income thresholds that would penalise her DD from being able to attend this school.

[TheWomanTheyCallJayne]

I'm a sahm except my youngest started school in September. I have two at prep and there is no way we can afford for me to work. Today for example one needs to be picked up at one time, the other has matches so finishes a bit later. Of course the younger two finish earlier as are at state.
This would be doable I guess with a nanny or an au pair but if I got a job it would be minimum wage and quite likely shift work. It just wouldn't be financially viable. The school assesses who they want to give bursaries to. They have the information so if they deem it ok that I stay at home then I am fine with that.
Most of the other parents at their school would be a little hypocritical to complain anyway as there is a lot of inherited wealth and property (and titles)

[middleclassonbursary]

I only ever worked part time till my DS's were secondary age. Most boarding preps have 18 weeks holiday a year few employees will wear this.
By the time they were secondary age but still at prep I increased my hours but again not to full time I was personally uncomfortable about leaving a couple of 11/12 year olds unsupervised for ten hours a day with the nearest responsible adult 3 miles away; we live in the countryside so are rather isolated.
Bursars are human if your applying for a bursary questions can and will be asked but no bursar wants you to compromise your DC's safety, or for that matter starve, not pay essential bills or go out to work to earn money only to have to spend it all on childcare.
The bursar at our prep even budgeted in very cheap family holiday a year inessential expenditure. Your not meant to be killing yourself paying the fees.

[morethanpotatoprints]

Some of these schools, including this one, openly state they are for children who wouldn't normally have the opportunity, hence up to 100% bursaries.
I think this applies to several situations and why the threshold is set so high before a parent has to pay full fees.
It is a very small school that only attracts a minority due to the entrance standard, there are fewer than 300 in the whole school. We are not looking at thousands of parents applying, receiving places and gaining huge bursaries.
I have considered finding some voluntary work, maybe even the school library or support work within the school as a starting point. There seems to be many small and large businesses in the area that may have small pt work available, which would help with the transport problem too, if she gained a place.

[summerends]

I know that bursary calculations vary but I was told that in at least some schools they would take account of major outgoings such as rent / mortgage, other bills, even fees for other private schools! If that is true the calculation should be based on real income and there would not be the problems of earning threshold.