When to go private?

[Vijac]

If money is limited, which stage do you think is most beneficial for a child to have private education? 4-7, 7-11 or secondary? Secondary is obviously where you get all your qualifications etc and where you are most likely to go off the rails and participate in club. But then, if you don't have the best start in education could it set the tone in a child's attitude and would they get into the more academic secondaries? What do people think. Just as an aside, I do know that there are good state schools available too.

[MrsShortfuse]

It's a daft argument partly because well-educated, driven parents with dc at state schools have more in common with private school parents than they do with non-motivated familes with dc at the same state school. It's not all about money.

[rabbitstew]

So it's about mixing with people like you, then, MrsShortfuse? That doesn't sound very diverse.

[MrsShortfuse]

No! What I mean is that often in these arguments (not necessarily on this thread) people talk about state schools and private schools as if the people that use each are one homogenous bunch. Which is daft.

[Altamoda]

Dd1 is at private secondary. There is a very diverse mix of Asian, black and Spanish kids. The local comp is very white British.

This doesn't matter however, as the vast majority of the girls at dd1s school are dark blonde, tall, middle class English girls and that is who dd1 predominantly hangs out with
They are all completely interchangeable if very nice and polite

[TheOriginalSteamingNit]

Bursaries are a non argument. Yes, they offer some discounted places - not always even based in financial situation- to a small minority of children who are bright enough. But the first, greatest hurdle to getting into private school is : can you pay? If you can't, the very vast majority of you can fuck right off. And that is not an ethos I like in people who purport to be bothered about education.

[rabbitstew]

I agree with that. You get an overlap of personalities between the two. Wealth, intelligence, upbringing and personality all have an impact on your choices, though, so where you have choice you will have increased homogeneity of one sort or another.

[MrsShortfuse]

Beautifully put, Nit.

[rabbitstew]

Ah, but that depends, TOSN, on whether the people to whom you refer are talking about being bothered about their own children's education, or education in general.

[Altamoda]

I am sure the bursars feel a bit like that, yes. But the teachers are a good sort.

[curlew]

"Ah, but that depends, TOSN, on whether the people to whom you refer are talking about being bothered about their own children's education, or education in general."

Isn't there something rather distasteful about people who are only bothered only about their own children's education, and not at all about education in general?

[TheOriginalSteamingNit]

Well Rabbit, I guess I mean the idea that private schools are doing something good that everyone else should be trying to emulate... Or that what they offer is so great that they'd like everyone to have it.

They wouldn't. They'd like mainly rich children to have it. And I'm objecting to the disingenuous attitude that this underlying attitude can ever be thought of as the bedrock of somewhere 'diverse'.

[TheOriginalSteamingNit]

Oh and the people I meant are teachers in private school, not the parents. I'm sure the parents think all kinds of different things, but the main one I'd like to disabuse them of is that their school is diverse, or that bursaries mean the doors are open to just anyone.

[curlew]

Or that if only people tried a bit harder them's be able to afford private school too- and they are only complaining about it because they are jealous.

[Altamoda]

I didn't choose my dd1s private school because it was diverse. I chose it because it gets the best gcse results in the county and it does tons of sport and they can occasionally board which is helpful if you work full time with no family near by. And we could afford it.

[rabbitstew]

In my view, free schools and paid-for private schools are actively encouraging the idea that you don't have to tolerate diversity of attitude - you can choose only to be educated amongst people who think like you.

[MrsShortfuse]

But as one poster said, 'diversity of attitude' actually translates into some really terrible circumstances at some state schools which is very, very far removed from liberal idyll.

[Altamoda]

Cultural diversity is desirable but not essential at school imo
I went to a very white middle class home counties girls school and I've managed to live and work with people from all over the world and from various socio economic backgrounds.

[Altamoda]

It's much easier to be educated with people who 'think like you'

Hence grammar schools

[rabbitstew]

If you view education as just another way of spending your money, it makes your choices much simpler - no annoying having to consider the meaning of education, beyond enjoyment and self-advancement.

[Altamoda]

So do parents at state schools spend a lot of time thinking about the theory of education then?

[TheOriginalSteamingNit]

There are some pretty terrible circumstances in the world...

There are also some fairly dreadful attitudes at some private schools, too, which are very far removed from the idyll of inclusive diversity being suggested here. Did anyone hear that longitudinal survey reported on radio 4 recently, about attitudes of first year students at Oxford and Cambridge, on whether or not they had been discriminated against or given preference according to the school they went to?

Reasons cited by private school alumni why there were fewer state school leavers there included 'there are more ethnic minorities at state school, so the results aren't as good'.

[MrsShortfuse]

I think if we are really honest, when we bang on about diversity there is still the underlying assumption that it's only desirable when everyone shares the same basic values of good manners, getting on with your work and everyone being very civilised and lovely.

When diversity means a brawl between stoned mothers in the playground yelling obscenities and throwing things, in full view of children....we tend not to think it's quite so great.

[Altamoda]

My daughters friends seem like a tolerant, kind lot. There has been some shocking behaviour and some truly terrible racist bullying at the local comp.

[rabbitstew]

Altamoda - some do, or at least, the philosophy of education.

[rabbitstew]

Diversity only works where you have the means to get away from each other when you feel like it and to float above the brawling.