If you could change one thing at your child's school (money no object) what would it be? Teachers views welcomed too.

[bummer]

Imagine you have a fairy wand that actually works if it helps!

Parents who realise that other children exist, and drive and park more safely near all schools. And proper on campus assistance for any SN child, money no object.

I havent really got much objection to SN kids in mainstream school. But staffing levels should be increased accordingly, so teachers can teach properly.

just thought id add an explamatioon,
sn kids take up a disproportionate amount of a teachers time. sometimes it feels like the entire lesson is geared towards that one child. which istn fair to the others of coures.

I'd agree with you there Stitch, hence my saying staffing levels should be increased to account for the extra teaching time needed for these kids.

My DS has two SN kids in his tutor base and he reckons they rule the roost all the time. He is lucky if the teacher even glances over to see if he is doing his work properly or not once in a whole lesson.

My main change in dd's school is to make the parent's less scary!
I am sick to death of walking in through a cloud of smoke at the school gates and hearing the foulest language possible.
It really is so imtimidating.
Reason dd goes is that she has sn and has to attend the unit attached.
Why is it that all sn units are attached to such run down schools where children have lots of emotional problems?

Synthetic phonics taught first, fast and only in Reception.

Secondary schools max. size 500 pupils or less.

NO religion in schools, or religious schools.

Disaffected pupils able to leave at 14-15 if they had a fulltime job or apprenticeship placement arranged, with the option of returning to complete their education (free) at any point up to the age of 30.

I would just like to say what a crap, offensive message Stitch has posted. I can only imagine you know nothing about children with SN in mainstream school. Most of the time they are ignored and have to try and keep up with the other children and the responsibility for them usually comes down to their LSA so they not taking up the teachers time. I just cannot believe someone would post ' no SN children in mainstream school', where the hell would you put them? They have every right to an education and sadly are failed more often than the other children in the class. I hope you think next time before you post as in my eyes what you have said is equal to racisim in its offensivness and ignorance.

wire, i take it you didnt read my explanation?

when i taught in secondary school, a class with an sn child, ii had two options, neither of which was acceptable to me. one was to give the sn child the attention they needed to learn what i was teaching them, and the only way i was able to do that, wsa by practically ignoring the rest of the class. or it was to try to teach the rest of they class and let the lsa teacher translate what i was teaching to the sn child.
neither option was acceptable. perhaps better teachers than me have found a happy median, but i always found it very difficult. and since the thread is about a fictional utopia, i posted it.

sn children have every right to an education, what they dont have is the right to deprive others of an education.

Absolutely, Wire. Still, we mustn't let those awful "SN children" get in the way of NT children. Pack them all off to special schools where they'll be out of the way.

Why do people automatically assume that children with SN = disruption? My ds1 is autistic and is doing very well in his mainstream primary. He is actually one of the few children in his class who hasn't been in any trouble this year. He hates the thought of rules being broken. He also doesn't have any 1:1 help.

Blossomhill, oh how I agree, we have far too many of that type of parent too and it makes me wonder what the poor children have to tackle every day! Sometimes I find myself having to talk very loudly trying to drown out the bad language, and the smoking and ciggy ends make me soooo cross.

i also like the idea of allowing 14 year olds who dont want to be in school to leave if they have an apprenticeship. many of these kids unfortunatly dont see it as a 'right to an education' but as being forced to stay in school against there wishes. they often disrupt classes with bad behaviour, and when the teacher has to spend time dealing with this, it means that others lose oout on their right to an education.

i would rather have an sn child in my class, than a group of kids, 'known' to the police, who have no respect for me, the school or anything and anybody in the room. but i dont get a choice do i? as a teacher, i do th e best i can.

and as for leaving the lsa to teach the sn child, maybe teachers doinng primary english can do so, but when teaching gcse chemistry, the lsa is usually just another student,

I read your explanation but I don't think it justified your post. My DD has severe physical disabilities but attends mainstream school and why the hell should she have to go somewhere else because some lazy teacher can't be bothered to include her. Like Coppertop, my DD is one of the best behaved in her class and I believe the school benefits from having her attend. Lets just hope there are better teachers than you out there.

coppertop, sn children dont tend to be badly behaved ime. depending on the specific needs of course, but they are usually models of good behaviour.
they just tend to take up a great deal o f my time when teaching. why should one child take up 40% of a teachers time during a class? what about the other 29?

physical disabilities are not something i have encountered whilst teaching, other than blindness.
and i take great exception to being called lazy.
when preparing a lesson for my gcse chemistry class, it would take me at least forty minutes extra to prepare the resources for my legally blind pupil.this was on top of the usual preparation for the rest of the class. i would then spend a lot more time with him and his lsa than i did with any other pupil in the class.
i would do this for every lesson, and his mother appreciated the extra work i put in. for you to say i am lazy is incredibly insulting. how dare you?

How dare I? In the same way you dare to say no special needs children in mainstream school.
I think you do sound lazy if you would rather remove children from school than teach them.

people like you are not worth wasting my time over. if you cant realise that there are other children in the school who also deserve an education, or that most teachers work very very hard purely for the reward of childreen learning, then there is no hope for you.

this thread is about what people would change in a school in an ideal world. the only thing i would change, after hearing your posts, is selfish parents like yourself who dont give a rat's arse about anyone else.
oh, and smaller class sizes

I'm sure people like me aren't worth wasting your time on ,that is very evident from your posts. Lets just pity the children with Sn that will have/had you as a teacher. I have complained about your posts as I feel they are offensive and so ignorant. Nice talking to you and lets hope your next career doesn't involve caring about others.

Lets be clear... ALL KIDS NEED A DECENT EDUCATION AND A FAIR START IN LIFE. Why does it have to be one group over another?

Nobody is saying - dump the SN kids coz they aren't worth the effort. Nobody is saying - dump the ordinary kids coz they aren't worth as much as SN kids.

All Stitch is saying (I hope i'm right) is that perhaps its not a good idea to put the two groups together for teaching.

I work in a hospital and we don't nurse elderly people on the children's ward. Both groups need care and treatment, but on different wards, with different facilities and differently trained staff. Its about diversity and difference.... not one being more important than the other.

That's my view anyhow, for what it's worth.

I think that it is underfunding of children with SEN that is the biggest problem with integration into mainstream.

And there are some children, I am think here particularly of kids st the severe end of ASD, who cannot cope with mainstream, even with constant 1 to 1 support. The noise, the relative lack of order, which is inescapable in large classes etc, make it a living hell for thse kids.

well said themoon66.

A subject like chemistry is not the same as say maths. There's the safey issues during the practical lessons.If as stitch says 40% of a teacher's time is taken by special needs child who's watching what the others are up to?
Of course SN deserve the same education and opportunities as every one else but sometimes they might benefit from being in smaller groups with their own teacher.
The only time I have ever encountered SN is in primary school. One was a DS child who with 1 to 1 help managed very well in our local junior school. At the end of yr6 her parents chose to send her to a special school fearing she would not cope with a large comp.The other was a child with speech difficulties.His parents moved him in year 4 to a school in a near by town with a special speech and language unit.
Their parents must have thought that specialist teaching was better than main stream school.

"I think that it is underfunding of children with SEN that is the biggest problem with integration into mainstream".

I would heartily agree with this comment made by Martian (whom I understand is also a teacher but I will stand corrected if wrong here). It is lack of funding - along with sometimes a lack of understanding that causes problems. Many parents do have to do a lot of work with the LEA in question to get the child's educational needs met if their child has SN. Inclusion of many SN children can and does work in mainstream; why therefore should children who are happy in their mainstream school be segregated from the rest of the populace.

Bearing in mind also that 1 in 7 people have a disability it is perhaps worthwhile teaching children that we are all different and act as we are made.

The range of special needs covers an area far wider than some may appreciate. Think also many people just think of autism when it comes to special needs and think that many such people are violent to boot. Its ignorance and fear that are behind such remarks methinks. Both feelings are powerful.

What about the children who have for instance dyslexia and/or dyspraxia?. They have special needs as well - is anyone seriously suggesting that such children should be placed in special needs schools?. I hope not, many such schools would not accept these children.

I have worked with children with ASD, ADHD, dyslexia etc etc who's needs have been met and they have been fine in school, reached their potential, been an active member of the class etc.

OTOH I have worked with children with the identical conditions who, due to the insanity of the system, have had no classroom support and who have reaced badly. This is most often simply because their needs are not met. When this happens you can get kids going into melt down, awful for them and the rest of the class. If you can provide the support a child needs, then integration can be a very positive thing.

Sadly for many children the level of support just isn't there . And when this happens you do often spent vast amounts of time managing a child's behaviour rather than teaching. This is due to the lack of funding.

thank you moon66 for your message.and attilla and mb, and not agranny.
i am gobsmacked that wire thinks that these posts are worth reporting just because the opinion is different from her own.

oh well, thants mumsnet, the good comes with the bad.

She maybe just got hold of the wrong end of the stick. I wouldn't worry.

wire, it may make you feel better to report me, and to shout abuse at me, but the fact remains that i had a good rep with the senco and all the lsa's in school. they thought i did a good job of teaching the kids, and there were never any complaints about me from the parents.

so just because i would 'prefer' not to have sn kids in my classes makes me a bad teacher?
let me list my other preferences, perhaps you can complain about them too
1 i would prefer to teach single sex classes
2 i would prefer to teach classes set according to ability,
3 i would prefer to teach children science, rather than having to teach them english
4 i would prefer not to have to teach children to read or write when they are in secondary school
5 i would prefr to teach classes with say, ten kids in them, or 15. but not 30+
6 i would prefer to be in a school where i could have every facility possible available.

i would also like a magic wand with which i could end world poverty and hunger, war, disease and famine. but i dont have one. this thread is about an ideal world, not what you would like to hear.
so can it, and go bully someone else