What advantages does private school bring you?

[GeorgianMumto5]

Genuine question which, I'm sure, has been done to death. Dd has a small chance of a place at a fee-paying secondary, which is something we'd never previously considered, but now it's sort of cropped up, I feel duty-bound to give it some proper thought.

I know the classes are smaller, they are selective (I am uneasy about that) and they often provide more opportunities to engage in sport and music. Anything else I should consider?

For background, dd is bright, bit of an all-rounder, conscientious, friendly, well-liked without being in the 'in-crowd', resilient, eager, funny...all qualities that I think will help her to thrive in any setting. Oh yeah, and she'll already know kids at either of the two state secondaries we're considering, or the fee-paying secondary and she gets on with all of them - seeks out their company and they hers, etc.

I think I have tremendous guilt about even considering private. Please feel free to tell me I either should/shouldn't or to simply get over myself. Thank you.

Doesn't Wycombe Abbey look amazing? (Only followed that link, so far.) About three times the cost of the school I'm looking at, too far away and mainly boarding, so it's a no-goer on too many fronts, but I do now see what you are saying. Yes, it offers more, all-round, than the kind of school I am looking at. It is possible that this school, however, offers more than the other state schools I'll be looking at.

Comparing WYCOMBE ABBEY with a state School is like comparing a 1.3 litre ASTRA WITH A FERRARI AND SAYING GOD THAT FERRARI IS FAST" A obvious thing but when you have massive resouces though fees of 30k plus pa and the brightest girls in the country how can you compare and judge such an unfair contest.

I don't think there is much you get at a private school that you can't get from a State school with a bit of parental effort. Or, more precisely, easily get in addition to that provided by the State school.

For example, my DSs' pre-prep does "forest school" - great idea and the boys love it. Or Beavers/Cubs/Scouts as one might call it if the school didn't provide it.

Swimming lessons? Well state schools finish at about 3.30 so take the kids swimming for an hour before tea.

Football? Sign up the kids for the local Sunday league kids club.

Small class sizes are definitely something private schools have as an advantage over State schools, but that can be double-edged - in DS1's class there are only 4 girls and 3 are thick as thieves, which isn't much fun for the remaining girl.

In my view, do it if you can easily afford it. But I'm not convinced it's worth the sacrifices some people appear prepared to make - and I'm thinking about the CostCo chicken thread from a few months ago (camping in Cornwall, 10 year old Volvo, etc, etc).

(won't is actually more accurate)

I confess that if you had been asking about your son I would have thrown good manners to the storm and insisted on a serious consideration of boarding. I have an agenda.... in my ideal world all boys between 11 and 18, who could, would have the opportunity to board for at least 3 to 4 years.

But girls are different. We're more complex, need more privacy as teens and, although all children can bully, there's nothing quite like the bitchiness of a girl-clique. I think weekly or flexi boarding is pretty good for girls - it can damp down the intensity.

Icantotally's idea of prepping her for sixth form boarding is brilliant!

Zigster - your idea only works for non-working mums who are willing to drive around like a maniac... just saying. Could never work for us (who on Earth gets off work at 3.30pm?!?). The after school childcare expense alone would cost about 60% of the annual school fee.

I agree. Very few of the mums at my DSs' pre-prep work. My DW doesn't work so we are becoming increasingly sceptical about the added value (at pre-prep at least) of private schooling as DW can pick up the slack herself if we moved to the local village primary.

I've no idea how so many with kids in State schools (and with both halves working) manage to afford after school care.

No, no, I was comparing Wycombe Abbey with the small independent I'm looking at which, in turn, I was comparing to local state schools. It is, I admit, confusing. (Especially the way I've just explained it.)

Right, I've been to visit. My gosh, it was nice! I don't mean it looked nice (though it did) but the head teacher met all my ideals for a school.

A bursary, should we be offered one, will still mean we have to pay almost £2000 per term. We can't do that, sadly. We especially won't be able to do it for two children (Ds is three years younger). You're going to ask me why I didn't research that first. I did, but the information wasn't available online.

I now completely 'get' what a private school offers, over and above a state school: it offers a more holistic approach to education (this one does, anyway) because it is free of some of the restrictions placed on state schools. It can also offer, and be more certain of achieving, an environment where learning is seen as 'cool'. Perhaps I saw those benefits there because they represent the things I value, but I saw them and I earnestly desired them!

I will very carefully go over our finances, but in truth I know that it is beyond our reach. Realistically, I think my next steps will be to take a very careful look at the state schools, find my best match and think very carefully about our home culture and how we can best supply the 'value added' things, by which I mean the learning ethos.

Dh has hit his earnings potential, a while back. I work part-time and earn so little that I am below the tax threshold. My earning potential is restricted by ill-health. We already holiday cheaply in this country, the kids wear hand-me downs and I'm dressed by Sainsbury's, George and, if I'm feeling flush, Matalan. Our food bill is costly, because three of us have food intolerances and these things do not come cheaply. I already cook from scratch. I have no childcare bills. Our main expenses are food and kids activities (ballet, swimming, gym, violin) and what are they, if not adding value? We are not poor and we live well, within our means. Like many others, really.

My mind was not made up from the start. I've really enjoyed thinking about this. I'm glad I looked into it. I'm sad that this is out of our reach, but it's onwards and upwards for us. You do what you can and you do it well, eh? It has helped me to focus right down on what really matters to me, for Dd. That wasn't the object of the exercise, but it's not an altogether bad outcome.

We pay a similar amount on a bursery, and have a similar set up re jobs. We are very lucky that we bought our house in '97 and therefore have a very small mortgage. We have extended the mortgage to help pay the fees which is costing us about £250/month more.

Our is boarding though, which means we only have the expense of feeding our teen boy during the holidays :D

GeorgianMum - do think about boarding schools again. As the poster above indicates, they do have better bursaries, and you will have less food costs during term-time.

For what it's worth - it's a pity that there is such a difference between private and state.

I can't think about them, Tasmania. All power to those who do, but it's like asking to think about removing my own arms - it's that far away from what I want out of life.

I have no qualms at all about other people choosing boarding. It's not that I am fundamentally against boarding (I have no strong views on it, as a concept) it's simply that it is a long, long way from anything I want for us.

You're right, it is a shame.

Our mortgage is small too. Just what are we doing with our money?!?

it's that far away from what I want out of life.......

Ok. Before I say anything - I dare you to say what you currently understand about boarding.

Because lots of otherwise sensible people that I know well think it involves depositing one's child at the beginning of September and then welcoming back a stranger at Christmas...

(I am only being so insistent because I suspect you do not want to let the idea drop but have decided to be realistic. I completely understand that it might look as if I am being pushy.)

Maybe talk to a financial adviser about the best way to release some funds? Or maybe an interest free loan from a member of the family? And look at your outgoings seriously. It's not fun being on a bursery, you literally have no spare cash. In our case it's worth it, but it won't be everyone's choice

I am somebody who is completely committed to state education, but when it comes to your own child, you should do what meets your child's needs, and not feel guilty about it. Private schools are selective, and have smaller classes. However, they are not per se better than state schools. You should have a look at their progress measures compared to the state schools you are considering. The most important thing that private schools give you are contacts. Your child will have good contacts for when they are grown up. The open evenings will give you a feeling for what suits your child best. I find www.how-to-choose-a-school.org/ helps with choosing a state secondary school. It is not for profit, and tries to be impartial.

Evageorge I don't question your own experience - but I would be astonished if a single parent at any of the independent schools that I have attended or been involved with has sent their child there for contacts.

Woo....

Jane Austen has just been named as the new face of the £10 banknote.

Surely this is significant?

Here:

www.dragonschool.org/flippingbooks/dragonstoday_summer2012/#/6/

Please have a look, even though I am being a horrible nuisance. Purely for info....

Somethingyesterday - that's our "local" private school... lol.

Not surprised you're enthusiastic about boarding! Although there are other good schools in the area....

Don't forget that private schools also deliver disadvantages eg there is a lot of prejudice against people who went to private schools from people who didn't....

It works the other way round too!

OP you visited a private school which told you it offered certain things, or showed you evidence that that is what it does, but that visit can't confirm that the state sector can't offer those very same things. The state sector isn't always constrained, the private sector is constrained too and neither sector has a monopoly of any one virtue or vice.

Good point, Fairdene. My next plan of action is (after the hols) to scout about and see who offers what. I'm slightly disappointed, but undaunted. It's not so much a barrier as a sign that I need to look elsewhere.

SomethingYesterday, you're not being pushy, don't worry. I think boarding is about rarely seeing my child during the week and sometimes not at weekends either. I think it's about my son not having his sister around to talk to/annoy/chill out with. One day she and he will grow up and leave home, but I need them to do the growing up part first, or some of it, anyway. I accept that there are loads of great things about boarding, including adventure, forging strong friendships, opportunities that you might otherwise miss out on, but I'm also confident that there are loads of great things about being in our family and those are the things I want to focus on.

I'll have look at your link now. I've been busy reading that excellent 'how to choose a secondary school' site. How useful is that?! Thank you, whoever posted that.

What's Jane Austen got to do with it? Other than it's always good to bring her into any conversation, I mean.

What you need from after school care and how much ferrying around you need to do to out of school activities will depend on the age of the child and where you live.

Since the thread is about secondary school age, I would have thought the thing about needing to ferry them around would only apply if you live somewhere very rural. My secondary school age ds is perfectly capable of taking himself to after school activities either on foot or by public transport. But obviously this only works if public transport is there.