What advantages does private school bring you?

[GeorgianMumto5]

Genuine question which, I'm sure, has been done to death. Dd has a small chance of a place at a fee-paying secondary, which is something we'd never previously considered, but now it's sort of cropped up, I feel duty-bound to give it some proper thought.

I know the classes are smaller, they are selective (I am uneasy about that) and they often provide more opportunities to engage in sport and music. Anything else I should consider?

For background, dd is bright, bit of an all-rounder, conscientious, friendly, well-liked without being in the 'in-crowd', resilient, eager, funny...all qualities that I think will help her to thrive in any setting. Oh yeah, and she'll already know kids at either of the two state secondaries we're considering, or the fee-paying secondary and she gets on with all of them - seeks out their company and they hers, etc.

I think I have tremendous guilt about even considering private. Please feel free to tell me I either should/shouldn't or to simply get over myself. Thank you.

[GeorgianMumto5]

I like that messing around and not getting on is seen as a bad thing. I think dd is grounded enough to know this anyway, but I've watched it happen to a young female relative and it's very depressing. Dd has seen it too, so is aware of it as one possible option. I don't think she'd do it though. I can't make up my mind if my relative does not care, or is affecting not to care, as a means of self-preservation. Either way, it seems a dreadful waste of five years of her life.

Dd would appreciate having peers who want to get on, although her friendship group currently is mainly of that ilk.

We have an excellent state VI form locally, so I'd anticipate dd continuing her studies there.

[ReallyTired]

Somethingyesterday

There is certainly a more varied social mix at your average state comp.

"In fact I'm willing to bet substantial sums of imaginary ££ that a major public school will encompass a far wider range of parental incomes and ethnic backgrounds that your nearest secondary school."

Some private schools have zero social or ethnic mix. Infact many parents do not want their children mixing with kids whose families are on benefits and are as thick as pig shit or into crime at an early age.

The private schools that give the odd bursury to the poor child pick the very brightest. There are gifted children who are on free school dinners.

I seriously doult if little Alfie who tries his best, but is underachieving because his mum is too pissed to listen to him read will get any kind of scholarship.

[LadyMaryQuiteContrary]

I was in a disruptive class. It was the top set too but most of the lessons were a waste of time as it was impossible to learn anything. I didn't have an academic family (there were other issues at home to deal with so homework could never be a priority) so knew nothing about self study. I managed to get 6 Cs and 1 B for GCSE, which was the highest in the class. I do wish I had been told about the assisted placed scheme (it's gone now). I still managed to get into University (not a great one) and complete a law degree but it was hard going.

[Somethingyesterday]

OP Happily you and DD have some time before she has to make firm decisions about subjects but - to be frank I'm not sure about this "moving to the state for sixth form" business.

I think Shaprkat's post is worth serious consideration. Given the title of your thread...

1. Moving for sixth form is more dislocating than at any other stage. If you've taken the care to choose the very best school for your child she should be at the peak of her engagement, dedication and ability just at the start of sixth form. And she should have built a strong support network of peers and staff who help her to do her best.
   
   
2. She is likely to have discussed and assessed A'Level choices long before the end of GCSE exams. It seems a pity to make those decisions at one school and then have to renegotiate them at another.
   
   
3. Assuming she has fulfilled her potential to that point, the school will be geared up for very traditional A'Levels. Will they all be available at the sixth form college?
   
   
4. If your DD is offered a bursary by a private school they will be working towards her A'Level success - which brings credit to the school. It might not seem quite fair that she builds the foundations at their school and then reaps the benefit elsewhere....
   
   But you have lots of time to think about it!

[GeorgianMumto5]

Thanks. The school doesn't have a sixth form. With a few notable exceptions, the general approach round here is, 'separate sixth form to school'. A few secondaries (mix of state and private) have them, but the majority do not. The school actively feeds into the state sixth form, so, in this instance, it's seen as 'normal'.

[cory]

It is always going to be the case of visiting all your options- state and private- and actually checking what facilities they have/how their students do at GCSE/whether the head of history is passionate or blase/whether the students you see are polite and look happy. As for extra-curricular activities, you also need to think about what is easily available in your local community, e.g. we wouldn't depend of dd's school having a drama club because there are any number of youth theatres available locally and once you have children old enough to make their own way to activities it doesn't really matter if they are on school premises or not.

[Xenia]

Why guilt about going private? Surely guilt about not. if you go state and could pay you are stealing money from the mouths of the poor. The correct moral choice is to pay fees.

If you cannot afford it though that's a different matter although plenty of women work full time to pay school fees whilst others sit around not working expecting full time working mothers to fund their school fees. There is no moral high ground for state school parents. Those who might work to pay fees or who could pay but choose new shoes over their child occupy a very low moral ground indeed.

[Somethingyesterday]

Oh! That's very interesting. And quite outside my experience. OP I'm not sure I even knew that any selective independent secondary schools only went up to GCSE.

Does it work well? (I mean do you know children who are at the other type of school and how do they compare?)

To be honest I've generally assumed that having a successful sixth form pulls up the aspiration of the rest of the school. And inevitably attracts really knowledgeable teachers who can get pupils into the best university, but also enthuse and stretch the littles.

[lljkk]

Bloody hell, Xenia, slow off the mark or what? Took you long enough to turn up here. 9/10 for hitting all your soapboxes in first post, though.

[rabbitstew]

Yes, why guilt about going private? Don't you know that the average IQ is only 100 and that such people bear very little resemblance to the heavenly beings who go to selective private schools? They're actually almost another species, aren't they, Xenia. So long as you are always nice and polite to them when you encounter them, because of course some of them just can't help being inferior, you shouldn't go round thinking that mixing with them in school is a good idea. Basically, state school children are either moral degenerates whose parents prefer shoes and idling around to school fees, or lacking higher level intelligence, or even worse, both.

[lemonmuffin]

Lady Mary wrote: "I was in a disruptive class. It was the top set too but most of the lessons were a waste of time as it was impossible to learn anything. I didn't have an academic family (there were other issues at home to deal with so homework could never be a priority) so knew nothing about self study"

Exactly my experience. You could have been me. And it did tremendous harm unfortunately.

So, I agree with Xenia on this; I would feel very guilty if dd does not go to a private school.

[rabbitstew]

It is so heartwarming to think of all those popstars' children, footballers' children, bankers' children, oil executives' children, Russian oligarchs' children, estate agents' children, lawyers' children, etc, doing the morally right thing. Morals are the first thing that pop into my mind when I think of private schools.

[rabbitstew]

What you need to do is get yourself a proper career, like Xenia's. Then you can have your own island, as many shoes as you want AND send your children to private school. This is all achieved by being morally superior.

[lljkk]

pmsl

[motherinferior]

WRT ethnic and social mix: do please come and look round my daughter's comprehensive school before pontificating on about its lack of social and ethnic mix.

[Xenia]

It comfort the less well off or lazy to assume there is some moral advantage in taking an expensive state school place but there is certainly a moral argument that we have a duty to minimise our cost to the state and pay for what we can ourselves for the good of others.

Also I never understood the argument that there were some golden glow about children in private schools that if we put the 500,000 of them into state schools the other pupils would benefit from the mere presence of our precious little darlings. In fact all that would happen would be that the state would spend less per child and those who cannot afford fees would have a worse education.

[funnyossity]

I may send my Ds private for the chance to study more than 6 subjects at age 15 to 16, our local comp (in scotland-don't panic down in England!) has this as it's new format and it's the final straw for me. I will feel guilty if I do this as other pupils don't have the option.

[Somethingyesterday]

motherinferior You may have read my post in a hurry. I am sorry you feel I was pontificating. At no point did I say that any particular comprehensive did not have any social or ethnic mix.

I daresay you read the other private school threads here? You will have noticed that those parents who are looking for a fee paying school and who can pay are often surprised, when they visit a given school, to find that it is more "mixed" than the no doubt outstanding state school in their own local, exclusively expensive area. Surely that is inevitable? A major public school attracts people who can pay the extraordinary fees, but it can also afford to offer places to children who would be excluded from many of the best state schools because their parents are much too poor to live within the catchment area.

I have experience of both state and independent education both as a child as an adult, which is why I felt qualified to comment here. I was not making it up!

[GeorgianMumto5]

I was a bit confused back there, but then I saw it was Xenia who had come to my aid and it kind of made sense, in a parallel universe sort of way.

Right, so: own island, full-time job in proper career...how hard can it be? I will need a cure for my incurable disease first though.

[HeyCarrieAnn]

Not sure I can answer the question about 'advantages' but my ds (HFA) is in a private school for the reason, as described perfectly and succinctly by LadyMary that it is our best hope for

'an environment where he is safe, where he can learn and where he is accepted'.

They are all I care about.

[motherinferior]

No, I hadn't noticed that, actually. You're using that well-worn trope of the 'leafy comps', I assume? In fact what you said was not 'state schools in posher areas' but 'your nearest state secondary'. I didn't read it in a hurry.

Granted, my daughter doesn't go to the nearest state secondary - though that one is also incredibly mixed - but to one that's extremely close, and in no way a posh one.

[rabbitstew]

"there is certainly a moral argument that we have a duty to minimise our cost to the state and pay for what we can ourselves for the good of others." Because State provision is just charity for the poor, it is absolutely nothing to do with being part of a shared enterprise. We also have a moral duty to minimise our payments to the state, so that we can afford to pay for things ourselves.

[LadyMaryQuiteContrary]

Do you get any help with funding, HeyCarrie? I'd do anything for ds but I feel as though I'm backed into a corner. I did send him to a state primary but had to pull him out after a term and a half as it was just too much for him. They won't say he has HFA as he doesn't fill enough of the criteria.

[Fairdene]

Where I live I would be doing my children a disservice to send them to any of the independents, both in terms of academics and society. I don't feel any moral qualms, none whatsoever.

[Rulesgirl]

I went to a private boarding school in Australia called MLC and what it did for me was to polish me up in a way. It taught me to be a lady and to be more interested in my studies. The teachers were all graduates and wafted around in long black cloaks and they were really interested in giving us the best education they could. I look back with such fond memories. I am still in touch with the school 35 years later as an Old Collegian and receive a monthly magazine from the school and invites to reunions etc. Feel very priviledged to have been able to go there.