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Original poster

GCSE's- Dumbed down or not?

46 replies

boozefree · 02/05/2006 22:17

If you were watching the 1950's programme about O-Levels/GCSE's-do you agree or not? I think exams nowadays are much easier, kids get loads of stuff off the internet and most kids think the world owes them a living. They don't see why they should be polite etc to teachers/parents and it wasn't like that in my day.Grin

DISCUSS... BTW I have the greatest respect for teachers, that's what I wanted to be OMG I'm so glad I didn't. I think I would probably end up decking some mouthy teen, or 11 year old whose parents told them they'd sue if I upset them, that didn't show any respect for me or their fellow pupils. BTW I have teens so I know what I'm ranting about. No coursework in my day, just hard work and exams. In that programme, apparently, you have to get 16% pass rate to get a GCSE?? WTF is going on with our education systemn?

Rant overShock

OP posts:
beef · 02/05/2006 22:26

Love the series - there's a thread on it under 'telly addicts' and yes I do think exams are easier now - even the kids on this programme admit that!

beef · 02/05/2006 22:26

oh and that Peters boy! - Angry

Greensleeves · 02/05/2006 22:36

It was that Amy girl that outraged me. What a total disgrace, a waste of skin. I felt embarassed for those kids and their parents. So many of them were shown up as spoiled, lazy, weak people with no character at all. Unbelievable.

Tortington · 02/05/2006 23:40

errrrrrrrrrr

i think they are perhaps easier than they used to be - but then it depends on your definition of easy?

i mean i was never taught latin - so that sounds ded hard to me

the curriculum in my opinion is more suited to the society in which we live.

apart from maths

where the fuck does anyone ever ever use a quadratic fkin equasion in everyday life?

Tortington · 02/05/2006 23:40

or orrrrrr

pythagoras and his fkin triangle.

now teach me how to work out 15% off a nice pair of jeans - now thats handy.

Donk · 02/05/2006 23:47

The exams are certainly very different nowadays. Easier? Maybe - but how many 'o'levels did a typical child do in the 1950s? How many involved coursework?
Students now have far more work to do for their GCSEs that I ever did (in 1978)

Blandmum · 03/05/2006 07:03

Custy, I shit you not (TM Custy! LOL) I teach A level students who can't calculate a percentage!

When my Year 11 kids start thei exams I will have three extra free lessons a week and I will be writing a Maths for Biologists book.

It will cover things like percentages and how to divide and multiply by 10! Shock

Last year I invigelated an AS maths exam (intermediale level) Fist question , what is the cube of 3. FFS! Granted, the little loves were not allowed a calculator but 3x3x3 for an A level question!

schneebly · 03/05/2006 07:46

I think that the modern curruculum is more research and discussion based rather than the memorisation type learning of the past but I dont think it is always very well executed and the really worrying thing is the growing lack of respect for teachers. I cant say anything about GCSE's specifically because I am in Scotland but if 16% really is the pass rate it is shocking!!! I was also shocked last week at the local youth club where I work PT - we had a weakest link quiz and the kids were rubbish - their general knowledge was zero!

katetee · 03/05/2006 07:47

Hiya
I totally agree that they are far easier than O levels. One of the O's I took was french and years later my neice took GCSE and then A level french. She was doing things in the A level that I did in O level. I am now doing a Biology GCSE and am gobsmacked that I can hand in coursework, and the tutor can assess it and give it back to me with tips on how to improve it WTF!! As we all know in O level it was learn it and remember it for the exam. Also seeing how badly those kids did in the programme on O levels but then got A's and A*'s in GCSE's!!

mrsbang · 03/05/2006 07:58

Funny you mention working out 15% discount Custardo.

I got 15% discount off a pair of shoes on Saturday, told a 22 year old friend (who did GCSEs and has a university degree)- she got the amount wrong.

Only one example, I know, but I had also worked it out correctly in the shop before the assistant worked it out on her calculator.

Tortington · 03/05/2006 08:32

we're all going to hell in a hand basketarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh

especially when i - great maths failure of the 21st century can boast - i can do an A-level question

Tortington · 03/05/2006 08:35

i really cant do percentages - i phone up my dh at work and whisper " 7 people cam to my meeting, but the total number to come to all the meetings was 46.

what percentage of attendees were mine?"

he huffs pand puffs then tells me the answer.

SenoraPostrophe · 03/05/2006 09:01

don't you think that if you took a class of O level pupils from the 50s and put them on a GCSE course they would struggle in some respects though? You are good at what you are taught.

I do agree that there should probably be more arithmatic in maths GCSE, and one or two GCSE subjexts are laughably easy, but overall, they just test different skill to O levels - they're not easier particularly. English is a really good example: you don't have to memorise passages from the books any more, but you do get more analytical questions than you used to.
Likewise coursework: what's the point in only testing by exam, when life is a series of "coursework" assignments? plenty of kids are good at exams but crap at coursework you know.

Finally the 16% pass mark: that would be for a G (or is it F?) - equivalent to a CSE, not an O level. that's the whole point of GCSEs.

prob best parp myself before I go any further hadn't I?

schneebly · 03/05/2006 09:03

agree Senora. Smile

schneebly · 03/05/2006 09:04

agree with your post not suggestion to parp yourself! lol!

SenoraPostrophe · 03/05/2006 09:12
Smile
SoupDragon · 03/05/2006 09:14

Absolutely. My niece is doing GCSE maths this year and they print the blimmin formulae in the exam paper! Bah! We had to remember them.

SenoraPostrophe · 03/05/2006 09:15

that's what I'm saying sd though. isn't it a more important skill to be able to use a complex formula correctly than to remember it? how often do you need to solve a quadratic equation in the desert exactly?

Harpsichordcarrier · 03/05/2006 09:19

mb that is genuinely Shock about the cube of three...
yes, I think the exams are easier and I don't think anyone could deny that, actually, given the remedial courses at universities for students to catch up
the changes in the education system were made for political reasons to increase "achievement" and hugely increase university attendance, which is not a bad thing necessarily as long as everyone recognises it

Saggarmakersbottomknocker · 03/05/2006 09:22

I did O levels - ds1 has done his GCSE's and ds2 in the middle of them now. I've done a GCSE too.

Generally speaking I think that they are easier to pass because of the cousrework part, if you do really well in that you can enter the exam with a good percentage of marks already in the bag.
But the coursework does mean they are under more pressure for a longer period. I don't remember feeling pressured at all even in the revision period before the exams. Also they do more subjects - we were only allowed 8 maximum, my ds1 did 10 and his not the brightest of the bunch (sorry son) and ds2 is doing 13 although one of those is an 'equivalent' subject.

From what I've seen Maths seems easier but English and History quite tough.

katetee · 03/05/2006 09:41

Hiya
I also think some of their 'new' ways of teaching maths is going to cause some children problems in later life. Does anyone else's child use chunking or the grid method for division and multiplication?
My dd1 is 12 and is currently taking her ks3 SATs, she is in an accelerated group, and will be taking (as will the other 29 in the group, so i'm not trying to brag) her GCSE English language next year (y9) along with GCSE statistics. I would therefore imagine that the subjects must be easier to pass now seeing that bright 13y. olds can do them. Having said that the maths they are doing in dd's set has left me behind a long time ago and I am not totally dense by any means! Well that's debatable i suppose!!

edam · 03/05/2006 09:47

Well, I haven't got any direct comparisons because I've never done a GCSE. But O and A levels did show how you perform under pressure, which has to be a key life skill, doesn't it?

My youngest sister (now 23) got A* GCSEs, As and Bs for A level and a 2:1 at university but I'm often suprised at the things she doesn't know. Can't think of good examples but for instance, I had to talk her through how to cast her vote last time around and the difference between general and local elections and county, district and unitary councils - which one involved MPs and which one councillors. Doh. Thought they did all that in citizenship? Certainly we knew it but can't remember if it was history (ie development of democracy) or something else. The worst thing is my father was chair of the local Labour party so you'd think she'd have picked something up!

People her age often seem to lack basic knowledge despite being academic high achievers.

(I do 15 per cent by doing 10 per cent and then adding half that which is probably cheating. But delighted to discover kids are taught near multiples these days - that's how I used to do it but it wasn't allowed!)

edam · 03/05/2006 09:48

Oh, don't get me started on the lack of times tables - that's something I have noticed about my sister. And they are bloody useful every day!

beef · 03/05/2006 09:51

That'll Teach Em brought up other issues in that both the girls and the boys performed much better in individual lessons when separated from each other.

The boys did much better in the sciences when doing practical lessons, experiments and got really engaged in the subject. Bearing in mind the lack of interest in progressing to higher education in science subjects surely the reintroduction of some teaching styles should be considered.
Results for the English exam were abysmal yet they were getting A*s in GCSE - there HAS to be something amiss there?
As for the use of quadratic equations in later life and other formulae - its not just about how useful it is, is it? To memorise and learn things exercises the mind - nowadays you don't have to work things out in your head, a machine does it for you - they take information into the exam with them, imho your brain needs exercising as much as your legs! Grin

katetee · 03/05/2006 09:52

totally agree re times tables, and general knowledge. I have put that down the fact that when I was growing up we played a lot of quiz type games as a family and just picked things up. I bought the family version of trivial pursuit recently and my bright dds have a very limited general knowledge!