Nursery question

[Janstar]

My ds aged 3 is still resisting toilet training. Some days he is fine but if he is tired or absorbed in doing something sometimes he just doesn't bother to say anything or take himself to the loo, and he does it in his pants.

I was warning the nursery assistant about this this morning and she told me that if he soils his pants in nursery they don't deal with it but would phone me to come and do it. She said they don't have the correct wash facilities.

Is this correct? If so I will have to make sure that I don't go far away when he is in nursery.

Bright side...dunno. I know it's a trivial problem really, compared with what some people are dealing with today. But it is just this type of thing that makes me hate motherhood and want to run away. I do find it all mind-numbing drudgery most of the time, ds wouldn't be here except that dh begged and begged.

Is it horrible of me to just wish and wish for him to reach 5?

"I was told that they would get into trouble for handling all the mess and then touching other children".

WHAT???? I've never heard anything so ridiculous in my life - a) you can use gloves or b) as I do, use disinfectant handwash!

It's just basic common hygiene that applies to home as well as school/nursery.

Janstar I spent 2 and a half years going between pants then back to pull ups. I still use a pull up on occasion. Why make life difficult for yourself? If its easier to use pull ups do!

If it is any comfort it took ds till 3.9 to completely stop having regular accidents at preschool. It will happen but I understand your frustrations at both your ds, the nursery and yourself. They are really making more of an issue of this than need be. Is there a collective toilet time as I know it helped ds stay dry when first trained to have an obvious break half way through.

Jimjams, I know you are right. I give advice like that to other mums! For some reason it is upsetting me though. I think it is all just not my scene!! I bet I'm not alone with that sentiment either, eh?

Slinky, I do agree with you. Obviously we all have poo on our hands sometimes with our little ones. But it is hard to argue when I know for a fact that some laws can be very weird about this sort of thing. For instance my sister works in a pub. She is the cook. At one point she used to do the cleaning as well but she told me that strictly speaking, she was flouting regulations by cleaning and then cooking. By law she really should have gone home and had a shower and complete change of clothing!

They also kept saying 'Most of the mums here wouldn't expect us to do it', which made me feel like the most inconsiderate swine amongst them. All I could say was, 'I don't wish it on you, but if I am an hour away, are you going to leave him sitting in it?'

I have the perfect solution...I shall be on the next flight to Acapulco, leaving dh's dinner in the oven and his kids in the cupboard under the stairs. What do you think?

janstar- any mother would not expect her child to be left sitting in poo. Even they must know that. That old chestnut is rolled out whenever they can't be bothered to deal with something.

I do know how mcuh it can get you down. Last saturday I answered the door to a neighbour (I don't know here very well) and ds1 stood there and weed and pooed himself right in front of her (agghh). It made a huge mess- and I was so fed up that I couldn't face another cleaning session that day - so out came the pull ups. He was dry the rest of the day but I just didn't have the energy tp worry about it- so pull up it was.

Go easy on yourself!

Janster

I don't think there is such a law though - otherwise wouldn't every nursery/playgroup/pre-school be aware of this and take certain measures.

I spend most days clearing up other children's poo and then the next minute I am cuddling/hugging/playing with another child.

I understand completely about your sister's situation - food and kitchen hygiene is a minefield of laws and regulations as it should be.

I think when I go to bed tonight I am going to dream of a giant poo chasing me.

Janster

As it so happens, my "homework" tonight is to familiarise myself with OFSTED's Day Care : Guidance to National Standards.

So having a look under "Health" I have found the following:

"Good hygiene practice can include:

changing nappies and undergarments when soiled or wet".

To me, the whole situation seems as though they just don't want to be around "poo/wee" and if so, then they shouldn't be working with very young children.

LOL Janster

and me....your nursery's attitude really infuriated me and I'm becoming obsessed

I suspect you are right, slinky. Am I just being feeble in not wanting to rock the boat? I live in a village where lots of people know each other. This nursery has been there for many many years, it's the only one in the village and I don't have another choice really. It seems good in all other ways and I've always got on well with the women who run it. I would normally be the one to stand up for something like this but I don't feel I could face all the fallout if I did it this time. I suspect that nothing would change but that I would feel uncomfortable every time I went there once I had pushed the point that bit further.

Also I don't want to end up with my ds being left in wet pants so that they can get back at me, if there is any chance of that happening I will just do as they ask.

Janstarhad to run out for an appointment beforeno, you are not alone in wishing for him to be 5 already! I couldn't consider having another baby, as much as I adore DD, and I had made that decision during my pregnancy with her. I enjoy her so much now that she is 9. For me it was sleep deprivation and her getting one sickness after the otherwhat bothered me the most was not being able to see an end to it..where's the light at the end of the tunnel??? It is the toughest job I have ever hadno regrets, just don't want to do it again!!! Now on to puberty....I am sure you could give me some advice there Janstar! Feel better and hope you are dreaming about Mexico, not c**p!

I'm so sorry you have to deal with that and don't have a choice of nurseries. I mentioned this in another thread, but when I was looking at nurseries for my ds, I visited one that refused to change soiled garments and mentioned that a crying child had been quite upset because he had had to wait in the hallway for an hour in pooey pants while waiting for his mother to pick him up. I was appalled and never went back to that nursery. My friend who teaches primary state school says she they change soiled children when they have accidents.

Have only just come across this thread and am appalled at the nursery's attitude. Have they not thought about the danger of the girls (particularly) contracting a urinary infection if they sit in a pile of poo for a long time? Unbelievable.

Morning everyone.

I sent ds to nursery in pull-ups this morning, and told him to try and treat them like pants, asking for the loo when he needs it. At least now I know they will change him if he has an accident.

Thanks to everyone who commented and advised me yesterday, especially jimjams and slinky. I am in a better mood today I devoured half a bottle of sherry last night and finally I felt relaxed. Still, I'll probably be mental again by tonight as I have ds home on Friday afternoons, also have dd2 at home as both she and I have thrush in our mouths, caught from ds. As for dd1, I am waiting for a call to go and collect her from school as she fell down the stairs this morning and bashed her back, still insisted on going to school, so I told her to go to matron if the bruising was too uncomfortable.

Sunchowder, what is this talk of Mexico?

SofiaAmes- that is appaling- I'm surprised they can get children back in the place after that. How humiliating for the poor child- and the prospectus probably described itself as "caring".

Sherry sounds a god way to relax Mine's a red wine please....

Just read this through and am appalled.

Particularly as ds had a major accident on Wednesday (poor mite, think it was due to his cold - he hardly ever has accidents now) with one of those explosive poos that seem to go everywhere.

Nursery went (in my opinion) above and beyond call of duty, cleaned him up, rinsed out every item of clothing, put clean stuff on him, warned me that despite that he still might need a bath when he got home as they could only clean up as best they could. Part of me was really relieved it had happened at nursery so I didn't have to deal with the cleanup

Now why can't all of them do that?!

Janstar,
Horrified to read of this, and other people's experiences of it too. I work in a nursery, and none of us would evr DREAM of leaving a poor child in soiled clothes.

IMO that amounts to neglect, and also emotional abuse. How humiliated must the poor child feel when he is left in a mess?

I'm sure that OFSTED would not condone this sort of treatment of a child's rights, have you tried phoning them and asking if this is considered acceptable practice?

You say nursery school Janstar but if he attended in nappies it does not sound like it.

A nursey school is attached to a primary/infant school usually. It caters for children from 3 to school age. Children either attend morning or afternoon sessions between 9-3.

A day nursery can caters for children from a young as 1mo. Most start from 3mo but some won't accept children until they turn 2. Hours are from 8-6 usually though 7-7 is not unhears of. You decide if he attends all day or half day, 5 days or just 2.
A day Nursery is registered with Ofsted now but they were registered with Social services until a couple of years ago.

If he is in an Ofsted registered day nursery then that is wrong. I have dealt with children 3-5 who have wet or soiled themselves. Admittedly preschool rooms have toilet facilities and not changing areas but toddler and baby rooms do so we use them if poss. Dirty clothes are bagged and sent home because of allergies to washing powders. If they won't change pooy pants find another nursery that will. I could easily harm his self esteem if you are phoned everytime he poos himself. He could also be made fun of by the older children (4-5yo) if he is left until you arrive. Also he could get quite sore if left. You may not be in a postion to go and deal with him straight away for what ever reason.

As far as resisting toilet training goes, try taking him to the toilet with you and let him see you go first then ask if he wants to go. Other children at the nursery will also help him. He will want to be like them.

Hi,

I've worked in day nurseries, and yes they will change nappies/pooey pants etc.

But if it is a pre-school, many of these request children are toilet trained. And many schools/pre schools will not change soiled pants because of child protections policies. Basically they do not want to be accused of sexually abusing a child.
They are entitled to call in the parents, but if parents are unavailable, they should not leave a child in pooey pants. They should try to encourage the child to change themselves and just assist with the obvious bits!!
Hope this helps!