If you can afford private education but remain in the state sector...

[TheseJeansHaveShrunk]

It's going to be hard to avoid this becoming another state v private thread, but what I'm interested in is a slightly different take on that debate. It's not "which is better?" but "if you think state school is better even though you could afford private education, then why is that?"

The question is based on the assumptions that the DC in question is/are reasonably bright (so might benefit academically from academically selective education), that the state school is non-selective (as most people don't have access to grammar schools), and that you hope for your DC to go to a good university (to make the £££££ fees worthwhile!)

I've been mulling this over ever since I heard some maths professor from Cambridge talking on the radio about the age-old private v state inequality of Oxbridge admissions. He was all for improving access for state school applicants but said that the simple fact was that for maths, even the best state schools generally teach only to the A-level syllabus, whereas the best private schools take their maths/further maths A-level candidates well beyond the syllabus and so the state school applicants are at a huge disadvantage - they simply don't have the starting level of knowledge required for the course.

This made me wonder: with this sort of unequal playing field, if you have the choice of private education, what reasons might you have not to take it?

Would be interested to hear from those who've made this choice - how it's working out, or if your DC have finished school now, how did it work out? Did they go to good universities/get good jobs, etc? On the other side of things, if you paid for private schooling but now regret it, why?

My DC go to a state school by the way.

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Of course private schools generally have more extra curricular activities state schools- the parents pay for them!

I agree, countrykitten, that attending a poor comp that made you feel scared to admit to working hard is an awful experience. I went through that myself, though managed to band together with the other boffins to offer a united front to the bullies. It is the reason i was very apprehensive about sending DD to a comp.

However, DD's school is nothing like mine. Working hard is definitely the done thing in all streams and the minority who muck about are regarded with pity.

Not sure the range of activities offered by DD's school is actually rare, seems to be the norm for this borough. Attending a local school has been a godsend though as it has made it possible for DD to devote a lot of after school time to her outside school activities. Not possible when she was not getting home until well after 5 as previously.

Arisbottle and Carrots, both the comps your children go to sound fantastic. However just because your childrens' schools are great does not mean that all comps in all areas are better than the private options. Your comments are just as eye-roll-inducing as someone whose children go to a private school saying that the private sector is sooo much better than state as their children were in state and they were bored and not worked to their potential there.

In my area, my local comp is nowhere near the league of the school DS1 goes to - not just in terms of academic attainment (top 5 private v not even on the charts state), but also the everything else. However, I certainly am not going to say that every area is just like the one I live in.

Carrots it sounds as though your dd's school is fantastic and has the right ethos. I hope that she is very happy and successful there.

seeker - it is not true that parents pay extra for all of the extra-curricular activities available at indies. Some possibly will require some equipment to be bought/hired but no extra charges are made at the school I teach. Please have some grasp of facts before you wade in with statements such as this.

I didn't say they paid extra- just that they pay.

Never said all comps are like my DD's, Mominatrix. Neither did I say that all areas are like mine. Read it back. Just offering my own experiences. Dismiss them as irrelevent if you like.

I actually DID say that the comp I went to was so bad it made me really apprehensive about sending DD to a comp. Then I realised that you should never generalise about any sector just because of your own bad experiences. But if I had visited the school and found it to be as bad as the one I attended hell would have frozen over before I let her anywhere near it.

country IME the £33000 + PA per child is generally covering the vast majority of the cost of the 80+ extra curricular activities offered the 5 plays a term they can go and watch and the 35+ concerts a term they can listen too. Being rural and working full time and not owning a helicopter I could not offer my DS these opportunities in a million years.

I appreciate your point and agree but thought that seeker was saying that pupils had to pay extra (on top of fees) which is not my experience.

Bonsoir I think the grammars at the top of the tables aim to send significantly more than 10% to Oxford and Cambridge most years.

word you were picked up the fallacy of your statement that 'virtually all' state school students at Oxford/ Cambridge come from a handful of schools. They don't, but you haven't yet addressed the point which maybe you should if you're going to get involved in the policy making of access. Or at least read the detail of the bumph you've been given. Some state schools, particularly and for obvious reasons the most academically selective, send a significant number but that in no way means that those students aren't fully deserving of their place. Those students shouldn't be penalised because they live within reach of a superselective and showed early promise. That doesn't make sense. This is not an area in which one should be too headliney or too black and white. Out of interest, what is your experience of grammars? I hope not merely MN :) And are clever Westminster students undeserving of their places despite being absurdly bright? Or all those Paulinas? Of course there are clever students in poor performing schools who need encouragement but the reality on the ground is that Oxford and Cambridge are significantly more diverse than some other Russell Group universities and have more resources to plough into accesss initiatives which are bearing fruit, and have been for years.

Sorry, picked up on.

At prep schools even boarding prep they usually do pay for many extra curricular activities especially if outside coaches are coming in but this would be on a par with the cost outside of school. I suppose this part of the reason (although only a small part) for the cheaper fees a mere £22 000 pa per child!

Carrots, of course your comments are not irrelevant - just adds to the picture that one cannot generalize about private v state on the macro level. In some areas, the state provisions are fantastic and other, not so great. The unfortunate thing is that all state schools are not like the brilliant comp you have access to.

Yellow- as I said to Mordion this is getting dullsville in extremis. I'm not going to engage with you on this issue for the reason that it's boring me shitless and must be boring everyone else. Get a grip and let the debate move on in the knowledge that you and I don't agree on this...and I'll do my thing and you can do yours.

@seeker - both the grammar school and the comp my older kids attend have more extra curricular activities than you can shake a stick at.

@mordion- but do they ride out with the Belvoir mounted by the school?

I think extra curricular stuff really varies from school to school irrespective of sector. Also, to be fair how much a child takes up is very individual. DS likes a bit of sport and his choir. DD does somerhing every bloody night! Though that's about tochage because she's pulling out of school (virtually) for the rest of the year.

I must remember that line for the next time I am caught in a fallacy but don't want to admit it. 'I'm not going to engage with you because it's boring me shitless'. Such a compelling statement.

Yellowtip, I would have agreed with you 100% until New Year when I met an Oxbridge Admissions tutor. She admitted that her College took a vastly disproportionate number of students from just 3 sixth form colleges. Yes, they all deserve to be there but there seems to be an unwritten code, understood by both school and College, in how the references are written.

Mordion- that thudding sound is people falling asleep! It's got nothing to do with being caught out - ooh get me, naughty girl. But what are we to do, carry on and on rehashing this? Is that your idea of thrilling coonversation? Is that your idea of a debate? I'm not going to agree with you, you're not going to agree with me. Now for gods sake, get a grip.

@seeker well, we're a family of vegetarians (except me, I'm a vegan) and hunting is illegal, is it not? Aside from the fact that the Belvoir is not even remotely near where we live. But no, neither school offers anything remotely horsey. Which is Obviousy another reason to think they are both fabulous

It's not just the number of extra curricular activities that interests me its the quality and the diversity. My DS1 comp offers loads but mainly sport often with waiting lists. Also the fact that 60%+ are bused in from villages understandably limits what can be offered and for how long.

@word you made a false statement. I no longer believe you did so by accident since you have had plenty of opportunity to retract or explain further. You clearly made your false, state school bashing, statement, because you have an agenda. You then tried to play the working class card which is particularly laughable in the circumstances. So no, I'm not going to leave it, because there may be people reading this thread who will buy your implied argument that if you can't send your child to Tiffins QEB or CRGS then the only other option is private school. You sound exactly like Xenia, in fact. You made a ridiculous agenda motivated statement and refuse to admit that you misspoke. And in an attempt to wriggle out of admitting you were wrong you have resorted to ill manners.

Mordion is illegal but fortunately hunt like the Belvoir currently still exist.

I just wanted to pick up on the bullying thing.

My DCs attend a very mediocre town comp. Bullying is not a persistent problem - when it happens it gets dealt with very firmly. The school had a behaviour problem but with going into special measures twice (did I say mediocre? I meant a bit crap) there was nowhere to hide and it had to deal with the problem.

I dont know if all schools are the same. I'm not sure. DN went to a fairly posh church girls school and was basically ostracized for the five years she was there.

It is very tempting to think 'rough school, bound to be full of bullies & thugs'. I think that if parents have a concern then they should really speak to all the schools in their area about bullying. IMO the schools which say bullying doesnt happen are both lying and condoning the bullying which is taking place.

Mordion - hello fellow vegan! Sorry for going off topic for a sec there.

NoP - 'rough' schools have more bullying in my experience.