For teachers- do your pupils learn something new every day?

[jasper]

I am asking this due to the thread about taking kids out of school outwith holidays, where some of you explained it disrupted the teaching programme.

My question is do you really teach your pupils something different every day? This is a genuine question, not intended to provoke or criticise. I admire anyone who chooses teaching as a profession and the friends I have who teach are , to a woman, remarkable and inspiring individuals.
It's just that my memory of school (particularly primary school ) was of weeks and weeks of repetition of the same things.

That was my biggest compliant about school - it was boring and repetitive and I felt I hardly ever learned anything.

We were taken out of school for a week or two most years and there was never any notion of having to catch up or missing anything. Have things changed or am I suffering from false memory syndrome ? Might I have gone on to acheive greatness if it hadn't been for those fortnights in Harrogate?

So to repeat my question,which was not intended to rehash the holidays issue, do you teach a different thing every single day?

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Have a word with the school, as I am sure that they would be delighted to get some help. If you are going to be in the classroom you will have to be checked out by the police, but an enhanced disclosure is only £10 and I sure that wouldn't he a problem for the school. You might have to wait for a bit. I have lots of friends who go into primary and help with the reading.

Re the not missing school thing, yet again. I have just had some external exams retured. In one class of 18 I have help them to raise their grades by 1 or 2 levels for all of the kids except 3. For those, two of them were missing for the two weeks prior the examination.

In another class we managed to work very hard in the weeks running up to the examination and some of the children raised their grades from a G to a C. (I have just picked up this class this year).

I am very proud of these kids, and feel that I have done some good work with them. I repeat, the kids in my classes miss out when they miss school, and the same is true for the other teachers that I know.

Well done, hmb! It must be so rewarding for you to get results like that.

I sang all the way home yesterday!!!!!! I was so proud of that class, as they all think of themselves as 'thick' only 2 of the 18 had predicated grades of a C, many were FF GG or EE. THey are hard work, and very difficult kids, but they put a sping into my step yesterday as 12 of the class got Cs and one got a B! I was far more pleased with them than with the 'top set' who got 8A*, 11A and 4 Bs.

The trick will be keeping them motivated to work hard.....

Steppemum - That is not how our holida record reads. For example christmas holidays 2003/2004 read last day of term, 18/12/03, first day of term, 5/01/2004. At the bottm of the list there are training days when the school is closed. One of these days is the 5th January 2004. We have 5 of these days, and 5 days when kids club is closed. Five days of my holiday which is short enough without having to take a week off because of teacher training days.

But if you want your children's teachers to be well trained, informed and up to date, then they have to go on training courses. That has to be done as a whole staff, if it is a whole school issue. Would you go into work for 5 days a year of your holiday? Probably not, so why the objection to teacher training days. It's SO disruptive to the children to have one mid-week - you try settling a class of 5 year olds into school on Monday, having a training day on Tuesday and starting again on Wednesday! Why do people who don't work in a school think training days are just a jolly?

rainbow - a few messages down I mentioned that training days are nothing new and have always been there. They were always just part of holidays but parents were perhaps just not told of them. We always had a 6.5 week holiday in the summer. Little did I know until later was that the teachers were in school for 3 days in the holidays - last day of term and first 2 days in Septmber. I don't think the actual number of school days children do has changed in quite a few years.

I don't know any teacher that doesn't go in for at least 2 or 3 days at the end of the summer holidays and are usually there for the first 2 days of the holidays too. So, that has immediately lopped a week off the average teacher's summer holiday! Because we had building work done and had to put all the equipment and furniture back ourselves, my colleagues and I gave up the last week of our summer holiday to do this and we had had to spend 3 days at the beginning of the summer emptying 2 rooms ready for the work!! Yes, this does go with the job and I'm not saying this in a 'poor me' way - just to make the point that 5 or 6 weeks holiday never happens in reality. And to make the point that how many other people would go and do that much in designated holiday time?

ditto what lara has just said

I think hmb has already mentioned this several times but form a slightly different angle. This applies to GCSE and A level (probably SATS as well but I don't know).

In our day - taking A levels as an example. Exam papers were long and were marked out of many marks. Several of my Biology papers for example were 3 hours and would have been marked out of 150 or 200 raw marks.

Now papers are much shorter- eg an hour and 20 minutes. A level modules were marked out of 60 raw markswhen I was teaching a couple of years ago. I think they're pretty much the same. What this means is that if a student messes up just one question it can bring them down a grade. In our day we could afford to mess up one topic as we could make the marks up elsewhere, bu tnow you really can't. That's why taking holidays in term time can mess up exam performance more than they used to.

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Can I change the subject a little, though still on the topic of teachers not being at school. What harm, if any, is done when a teacher is off sick and several different supply teachers fill in for him or her? would the class usually progress at the same speed regardless? does consistency of teaching matter? My son, when in Year 2, was taught by at least a dozen different supply and regular teachers, filling in for his continually absant form teacher. When he changed schools, early in year three, his new teacher and head teacher took me one side and told me he had recieved very poor teaching in year 2 and he had lots of catching up to do. They were very obviously upset about the quality of the teaching he had recieved.

I have to say that each of my son's teachers so far has had more time off sick from work each year than I ever have had in my jobs. I know teaching is stressful and you have to feel on top of things to face a class of children, but what effect does this have on performance?

I can't connemt on Primary because I don't know enough about it. In secondary teaching being abscent is not a good idea. If a teacher is missing for a short time the lesson will be covered, but not always by a subject specialist. So, I could be asked to cover a Russian lesson, and I have never done Russian in my life. Cover work will be set, but I would be unable to help a chhild having problems. Obviously this would be less of a problem if I were covering, say English, or maths or French, which I studied at 'O' level and could give some help. If a teacher is away long term, a supply teacher will be taken on who is a specialist in the subject.

Re techers being ill. We have 12 people in our department. We lost one guy for two weeks as he had an emergency operation. One to 4 days from 'Flu and I missed a week when my ds had 'flu. That is since September. So we don't all sag off.

Teachers are just like anyone else, some are good and some are bad.

Re the pay. Starting pay for a teacher is £17.500. Not bad money, but not that good for some one with a degree and a PGCE.

Th efalling ill thing is worse, I think, in Primary. This is because the kids are always getting ill, things going round the classroom. This is the case in my dd's and ds's class. The kids get everything going round and so do the teachers. In primary kids get 'close up' to the teacher making it easier for the bacteria to be passed on. In secondary kids will tend to keep their distance from the teachers! Also by the the time they get to secondary the kids will be immune to lots of the bugs going round.

And yes, i realise that there are some secondary teachers who are off ill a lot.

On the subject of wages.My partner works in a supermarket and is training to be a manager.He has no deegrees and not even a GCSE of c or above.Why relevant well he is dyslexic and it wasn't recognised so he has had to prove himself through damed hard work for which his wage is a joke.He is at risk of injury everytime he lifts boxes his work involves dealing with people of all ages and all temperaments.This is not taken into account.A teacher has a hard job too I believe that crowd control as well as the odd bit of teaching is how many have described it.
My partner works long hours and still finds time to help educate our children.I myself have to be a teacher a mother and even a friend to my children during school hours.I have only 2 gcse's of c grade.My son is working on subjects ranging from keystage 2-GCSE's,my daughter is just starting her basic reading and writing skills.I manage to do this and yes often I learn along with my child.My point is that if someone like myself can do this then why do teachers need so much extra training and why is teaching a class so difficult.My sons friends join him in the school holidays and I find myself shocked at their lack of basic knowledge.They often learn more from me in a day than in a week at school.I now have parents asking my advice on how to help their children as they feel that school does not give education as they for one reason or another cannot HE.From this only I can judge but I honestly think that from what I see holidays in term time of either teacher or pupil cannot hurt.

signingmum I think it is a little unfair to compare HE and school (and I am a fan of home ed- will probably do it during secondary years). They are 2 such different things. The big advatage you have as a HEdder is that you are not constrained by the NC, and your children will not be tested on what they know. SATS and the NC together do severely limit a teacher's freedom. The problem with teacher's taking time off is greatest in terms of curriculum and exams rather than education. Of course a supply teacher isn't going to know each individual child as well so that can cause problems

Singingmum, I echo Jimjams points that it is unrealistic to compare HE to school teaching. Regarding, why do you need a degree, I have just spent a lesson teaching the sixth form human biologists Glycolysis and the Krebs cycle. Jimjams can vouch for how difficult a topic this is! I have a degree from a first rate university, have taught and carried out research in 3 of the top 10 universities in the UK, 10 'O' level and 3 'A' levels and a teaching qualification and it took all my ability and extensive training to teach this topic to this gropu of kids. This stuff was university level when I first did it. Put The krebs cyle into Google and see what you find, and if you feel that you could teach that on, say Monday.

I don't underestimate the dedication and skill that people have when the HE, pay teachers the same degree of recognition please.

Jimjams I was just stating that teaching in this country is a farce ie the national curriculum does not fit in with true education of children as it does not take into account individuality.The nc likes children put into slots and most children alter their own individuality to fit, this is not a good thing.I understand that around exam time children/teachers should not be absent but most parents know this.The whole subject of exam time absence is caused by a minority yet blamed on the majority.
HE children are tested by the education officer when they visit.It may not be in the same way as in school but is in many ways harder as they ask about not only work learned but social skills.I have never seen a social skills test in schools.Maybe they should as I know many including myself who would not have passed.If a HE child is seen as not having many friends I am told that it would be better if I did something about it.I get judged by those factors as to how well a job I am doing as a parent.
I have respect for teachers who give a care about the children they teach but in my experience they ar0e very rare. I had an excellent form tutor but an atrocious child care teacher who actually told our class that she couldn't be bothered to teach us GCSE so we were taught CofE which in reality is a useless piece of paper.If teachers were checked as closely as HE'ers then maybe education would improve.

But singingmum, the teachers in schools have to teach the stuff in the NC, that is what the children will be tested on IN THEIR EXTERNAL EXAMINATIONS. The parents who send their children to state schools want their children to get these external examination. Therefor the teachers have to be able to understand and teach everything that is on the sylabus.

We can argue that the education system is too driven by examps, and too prescriptive, and I'd agree with you on many points. But the point that you seemed to be making was that I *didn't need a degree to teach IN SCHOOL. Trust me I do. Did you look up the krebs cycle? Can you teach that? If you are HEdding, you don't have to, so that if fine, but I have 5 kids in the sixth form who are going to be tested on that in two weeks time! So I have to be able to teach it.

These kids had a different teacher last year, and he was crap, and was sacked. He didn't have the qualifications that I have and didn't understand this stuff, and couldn't teach it. So I am busy playing catch up for these kids.

I'm pleased to hear that your predecessor was given the boot, Hmb. I think part of the problem with the public perception of teaching is that poor teachers are allowed to get away with it for far too long. One bad apple in the barrell, etc.

When dd1 was in P4 we never once set eyes on her designated teacher. Instead she had a retired supply teacher who was quite open that she was only doing the job until she had enough money to go on a superduper holiday and I think dd learned not a single thing that year. DD's orginal teacher was busted for possessing a ton of pornography and his 'reward' was to be given early retirement!!

Dd1 is at a very good school atm but there are still bad teachers there. Her guidance teacher is appalling. She has no empathy with children whatsoever; they'd rather eat dirt than talk to her about anything. She is frequently off work for months at a time with stress; the children look forward to this as their stand-in guidance teacher is a fantastic person, completely lovely. So why is the permanent guidance teacher allowed to continue?? She's no good for the pupils and she's harming her own health as well.

Generally, we've been fortunate with teachers over the years (I've had children 'in the system' since 1980!!) but sadly human nature causes us to remember the bad ones over the good far more easily.

"I have respect for teachers who give a care about the children they teach but in my experience they ar0e very rare." - singingmum - do a quick poll of the teachers on mumsnet....
I would also like to invite you to spend a day in our school - or longer if you like - just to see how committed MANY teachers are

Popsycal, I'm such a crap teacher that I'm spending this afternoon marking books and preparing my lessons for next week. This isn't a teacher whinge, I see this as part of my job, and as people have said I chose to be a teacher.

Obviously I'm a crap teacher because I have to spend time planning my lessons in advance. After all, everyone knows that you can just walk into the classroom and talk for an hour. You don't need qualifications or anything