Cursive writing at 4 years of age !! Am I right to be annoyed?

[3catstoo]

Hi,
My dd1 is 4. She started school in Sept. At our local school they like the children to start using cursive writing from day one. For ds1 last year this was not a problem as he was 5. However dd1 is not finding it easy. This does not worry me in the slightest, I think they are far too young to pressure.
dd has been getting spellings since finishing her word pot words. She has to learn 5 a week and write them as part of a sentence dictated by the teacher. Her spelling is good verbally but she still struggles with some letters when writing.
Today she got her spellings correct but the teacher had written a note saying "From now on even if dd1 gets the spelling right but fails to use cursive writing they will be marked as incorrect. She will continue to get the same set until she uses cursive writing".
I am still really angry about this 3 hrs later.
Surley a spelling test should be just that. I am proud of dd for being able to spell the words in the first place and to write them down with the letters the right way around in a legible form. Why a 4 year old is being pressued into cursive writing I fail to understand.
Am I justified in saying something to the teacher (not my favourite person at the best of times)?
This seems to be the only school around here that uses cursive writing from Reception.
Any advice would be gratefully received.

Agree with PPH - spelling and handwriting are two totally separate issues.

Teacher isn't being fair IMO.

As far as I'm concerned Reception teaching should be all about motivation and encouragement. Nothing wrong with spelling tests or cursive writing, as long as the way they are conducted increases confidence and shows children the progress they are making. As Puff says, I think your dd's teacher could do with a refresher on promoting literacy! Many many reception aged children struggle with fine motor control, and although the cursive writing from the beginning approach can be v successful, it has to be done in a celebratory way, where every little success is acknowledged (as far as I'm concerned anyway), not where the mistakes are penalised.

I'd have a word with the teacher, saying that you are think your dd is being turned off learning her spellings because of the handwriting issue, and that you feel the whole approach is taking away her confidence and making her a more reluctant writer, rather than a confident one - and then ask the teacher what she'll do about it.....then take it from there, depending on what she says.

I hope you get it sorted out, and let us know what happens.

I'm amazed it is a state school. It's the sort of thing that happens in the quite competitive private schools!

Reception (in my mind) should be about getting used to school, playing and doing a bit of letter/number work in preparation for yr 1 and 2 where a bit more is expected. Your poor dd!

Jsut read this and am gobsmacked. Sorry but you need to have words with the teacher.If a spelling is right, its right, regardless of what way it is written (cursive or otherwise I mean ) and if she is getting spelling marked wrong that are actually right then you are gonna end up with one very confused little girl.

Just another thought.....

Developing the physical control for writing is the same as developing physical skills in other areas - some children take longer than others, just in the same way that some children walk earlier, can jump earlier etc etc. Testing this isn't helpful. Practise will improve physical skills, like handwriting, but there is a maturity and developmental element that is out of the child's control to a certain extent.

Spelling lists can be devised to suit a child's individual learning needs (I expect there are different groups, who have different spellings to learn, depending on their experience/progress), but has that been taken into account with the handwriting? - or do the letters/joins etc simply come from the spelling words IYSWIM.

I feel it's a bit like giving children a running race test, and not awarding points to a child who isn't running fast enough....just plain barking.

That was a bit of a ramble...sorry! but I hope I made a bit of sense.

Well my efforts to chat to the teacher did not go very well. I came out almost in tears!
Despite my efforts to remain calm the teacher got a bit defensive and stroppy with me. Her conclusion was for dd to not have spelling tests at all but to do nothing specific to improve the writing either. She did not believe that dd's confidence would suffer as a result of her original idea and said that spelling and handwriting go hand in hand.
With another child yet to go to this school I feel I do not want to go above the teachers head but don't really know what to do.
Should I just go with what she suggested and do more at home so dd doesn't fall behind. I have worked on cursive writing with dd since July but it just doesn't click.
I wish I had the courage to just pull her out of school until year one where the teachers are a bit more human and open minded.
This teacher has wound lots of parents up in various ways. She has been teaching for 2.5 years now but was an I.T. consultant before. She really lacks inter personal skills and tact.

I would go to the head teacher

what she suggests is just ridiculous

I also think this pressure on your dd to write seemingly perfect cursive writing in only the second term of reception is absurd. Dd is in yr1 and I would say around half her class write beautiful cursive writing and the other half have still got some way to go!

You cannot force a child to write - their fine motor skills don't just respond to someone clicking their fingers. They develop in their own time like everything else!

Spelling and handwriting do not go hand in hand, that's a totally stupid thing for the teacher to say. Spelling and reading maybe, not spelling and handwriting.
I was rubbish at handwriting when I was your dd's age and a really good reader and speller. I hate to think what it would have done for my confidence if I had been marked down on my spelling because of the handwriting.
Don't know much about primary age pedagogy but at university level we are always being told not to mark people down overall because of bad English or presentation unless it affects comprehension.

I too have a great speller with poor handwriting. It would absolutely devastate her confidence if someone started marking her wrong for not doing her letter properly.

Go above the teacher. Go and have a chat with the head or deputy. It is not right tht your little girl is penalised and demoralised in this way in her first year at school. It coul put her off school and education for good!

I am hestating to go to the head/deputy head because I'm worried about the effect it will have on the teachers opinion of dd1 and of dd2 (who will go into that class in 2 years time).
The head, although fantastic with the children, is not the most approachable man as far as parents are concerned. The deputy head is new and seems lovely but not sure how to approach her. It's parents evening in 3 weeks time, not sure if I want to go and listen to Mrs X and her opinions of my daughter.
I feel like I am making more out of this than I should be but this is my daughters education and first impression of school.
As I am on the PTA perhaps I can catch the deputy head at the next meeting and have a chat afterwards.

I had a parent/teacher appt with my Ds's teacher today and his writing his terrible - really almost impossible to decipher. But she sits down with him to work out what it is.

I mentioned you and what your DD's teacher had said and she was horrified. Said it sounded like teaching of about 40 years ago.

She suggested I help my DS with drawing and do things like plasticine etc with him to develop fine motors skills. And not to put too much emphasis on the writing as it will come.

FWIW I would approach someone else at the school if I were you. It is totally not fair to treat your DD like this and the head or whoever needs to know how the teacher is "encouragin" children.

3cats, is this cursive writing actually joined? or just with the lead on and lead offs.

As an ex reception teacher I am so shocked at this. I had tons of kids at this stage who did not know some letters let alone write them or spell them in a test. In reception they should still be following the foundation stage curriculum not key stage one. And at this stage there is no way that handwriting and spelling are linked. When you are older, writing a word can help you spell it but now its just a fine motor skill.

3cats, well done for talking to the teacher - unfortunately you've just got a bad teacher here. I really would approach the deputy head or head, ask for a confidential appointment so they are aware you want to talk about something 'delicate'! I would just say to them what you have said here - that you have spoken to th teacher (politely!) who became defensive and unhelpful. Tell them that you are worried that raising this above the teachers head will impact on the way the teacher feels about and relates to your child, so you want to be reassured that the matter can be dealt with in a positive way, but you remain convinced that this approach is negative and wrong and will do nothing to promote your child's progress with writing, let alone her love of school in general.

They will surely have to do something - and it sounds like you really want something done? What do you think?

I am a bit calmer this morning.
The writing isn't joined it's just the 'flicks' at the start and end of the letters. In fact if the children do attempt to join their letters in reception, as my ds did last year, they are told off!!!! It all makes no sense to me.
I had a problem with this teacher last year with ds and his reading. She insisted that he was a hesitent reader and needed help. Actually he was a great reader but he was frightened of her. She did end up agreeing with me once ds had read with the teaching assistant. Since moving from her class to Yr 1 in September he has come on leaps and bounds.
I was hoping I wouldn't have a negative experience with her with dd1. I dread to think what she will throw at dd2 when she goes in a few years.
I think I will send DH to parents evening and see if he gets a bit more respect.

agree with pph

have no probs with cursive writing or spelling tests but to confuse the two is bonkers

why is this woman a teacher? why?!!

agree with enid and pph. dd1 does this kind of writing and although it's harder initially i think it helps with letter formation. a good book to read on the thinking behind all of this is by rosemary sassoon, an expert on handwriting.

I have no idea about the schools spelling and handwriting policy. Who should I speak to about that without causing a stir?
I agree that in the longterm cursive writing can look great. I have no objections to my children being taught to do it. But there are ways of encouraging 4 year olds to do things. Pressure is not one of them and marking correct spellings as incorrect does not help one bit.
My dd is trying to use cursive writing but not really forming the letters in the right way. Shes adding bits on once the initial letter has been written. So it looks fine but was not formed correctly.
Personally I think the teacher should back off and let dd go at her own pace with the writing.
I sat down with dd last night and used a wipe clean cursive writing white board. She did it all perfectly when joining the dots. However when I asked her to write a few letters on some paper herself she just couldn't get it, her hand wanted to go in the opposite diection. I tried holding her hand to show her where to start and after a few attempts she got it. But that was one letter. We tried another and she struggled so much that she ended up crying. I said we should leave it there as I didn't want her getting upset but she said "I want to carry on Mummy, I want to do it but it's too hard".
I think it is down to fine motor skills that some 4 year olds have not yet mastered. My ds was 5 when he was in reception last year so he seemed to breeze through it. Alot of parents have said that turning 5 was a big milestone developmentally and that the penny seemed to drop with reading or writing almost overnight.
I think I might try speaking to the teacher one more time and show her dds efforts at home with the writing and say how much of a struggle it was. Also bearing in mind that I have been practicing on and off with her for 7 months with the same result each time. DD is not being stubborn, she is really trying but it just isn't there yet.
No point in holding her back on the spellings because of this.
Before my children started school I had no idea it would be like this. Why does everything have to be so perfect from such a young age. What kind of generation are we creating?

Although I have heard the arguments for the early teaching of cursive, and the arguments that it helps later with spelling as the word 'flows', I still think, like most posters, that writing and spelling are two completely different things. It's extremely demotivating.

The early emphasis on written work is hugely offputting to many children, and DS1 (7) is only just becoming legible. He still finds writing very tiring and it is a shame, because he gets penalised for scant output.

very harsh for a 4 yr old imo.

btw why does everybody call it "cursive" writing all of a sudden. what is wrong with "joined up writing" - or am i hopeessly old fashioned?

it was cursive when i learned it but I am ancient

Yes, I'm never quite sure if 'cursive' is a special form of 'joined up' writing that I don't know about. Don't Americans learn cursive, which is much more loopy and curly than standard British joined up?