11+

[GracieW]

How much time does your Year 5 DC spend working for this (either tutoring or homework)?

Just want to get an idea of the time commitment...

TIA

Wow some of you are soooo scary and damn competitive. DS end of year 5 and a few weeks off South west Herts Consortium test. We have done 2-3 hours a week throughout the year self tutoring. He is a naturally bright boy but by no means gifted. If he gets into a good school so be it if not then that what is to be. I will not tutor him to death to get into a "better school" just for him to struggle or for us to forever more have to tutor till he leave secondary. The reason we are self tutoring is about familiarity not aptitude. Mind you each to their own I suppose meh

Started in November for exams in January. 10 one hour sessions with a good tutor teaching all about exam technique to our state school son. he did 2 or three test papers under exam conditions in the kitchen (from various school website that provide examples).

Worked a treat - sat 2 exams, offered 2 places. No additional prep required other than normal state school national curriculum.

Outside the tutor, I'd say it's important to not make a big deal of it, don't stress yourself (and your child), do lots of extra curricular activity (music, art, drama, see plays, etc) and make sure homework is done to the highest standard. Most of all - read books, lots of books, books that challenge, easy books to relax with, and then read some more.

i have three who passed. They did an hour with a tutor then a thirty mins hw from her every week.

( started 6 months before test)

Just noticed this thread is two years old! DS does one hour Maths and one hour Literacy weekly with tutors. Maths tutor doesn't give him homework, or only if he thinks is need it which is very rare. The Literacy tutor always gives him something to do for the next lesson... spellings, add new words for 'word-bank', creative writing, reading task or comprehension. DS took part in 11+ mock test in June and scored very high. Well pleased. However, many other 400 children had high scores too. 1600 children in total taking the same mock test.

Wow my heart is pounding from just reading this. My son is doing the super selective latymer test in sept. he's quite bright but don't know if he can handle the pressure from exams. He's going for tutoring now which is costing me a fortune. I'd really feel bad if after all the effort he doesnt get close. I know no knowledge is lost but this is just too scary.

Does anyone use the schofield & sims progress papers for maths? What are the best 11+ books out there to help with practice for the exam?! Help! thanks

voddiekeepsmesane hope the academic aptitude test went well for your son and that you get the news you are hoping for on 20 Oct. I have two older children at one of the S W Herts consortium schools and we also did DIY familiarisation rather than using a tutor.

People say it's really time intensive. At it's most intensive my son was doing 7-8 hours a week. But he still spent double that amount of time on his IPAD and playing football . And what would he have done rather than his maths/english VR's? Yes . More football, more IPAD!

TheFirstOfHerName not sure how old your DCs are but would they have got Parmiters (252) or one of the grammars (253 boys inner, 251 girls inner) if they had sat the exam in 2014 and got the same mark? If so they are certainly extremely bight children as in the last three years I've not met a single local parent who has only done familiarization rather than tutoring. There again I suppose it depends on what you consider to be familiarization.

DS1: we will never know, as he took the test in the days when we weren't told the results. The cut-off that year for the school he got into was 242. He started preparing at the beginning of Y5 and was very motivated (it was his idea to do the test). He started with half an hour a week and built up to one VR paper and one Maths paper per week in the weeks before the test (which at that time was in November, so he had some time off in the holidays).

DS2 got 263 in the test in September 2012, so would have been fine in any year. He refused any coaching from me (apparently his methods are better than the ones I wanted to show him) but did some practice most weeks for the nine months leading up to the test, starting from 20 minutes per week and building up to one full-length 45 or 50 minute paper per week closer to the test. He also scored high in the music audition. In the end, we decided that DS1's school would best meet his needs (he has SEN) so he used a sibling place.

In my children's experience, the S W Herts consortium test is feasible with a moderate amount of preparation & familiarisation (up to an hour a week during Y5). However, I realise that others do a lot more, and many go to professional tutors.

TheFirstOfHerName have you posted on the elevenplus website? I ask this because I have only ever seen one parent post about an experience like the one you had with your DS2. Another parent responded to comment that they knew the DS and their natural academic ability was significantly higher than the norm even by the standard expected at a selective school.

BTW, the familiarisation you describe for you DS1 is what I would call tutoring. Familiarisation, in my mind, would not take a year of regular work.

To also put it in to perspective, the outer cut off for Watford boys on allocation day 2014 was 260. Your DS2 would have made it by 3 points. For some that would be cutting it a bit too fine and would certainly be a concern for those who have just sat the test.

I have only ever seen one parent post about an experience like the one you had with your DS2. Another parent responded to comment that they knew the DS and their natural academic ability was significantly higher than the norm even by the standard expected at a selective school.

I think that may have been me. The other poster who commented has known DS2 since he was a baby and has a DD who was in his class at primary. Now he is at a partially selective secondary, he is in the top half of top sets but by no means unusual. I would guess that there are at least half a dozen children in his year group who I would consider to be more able (I know of one who got 280 in the test).

TheFirstOfHerName I think that may have been me. Assuming it was, you will know full well that the level of preparation your DCs did is not very common when it comes to the SW Herts 11 plus.

If the child you know who scored 280 did the same level of preparation as your DC then I would imagine that they are naturally exceptionally bright given that the score would have placed them within the top 0.38 of their cohort (which will have consisted of literally hundreds of children).

It is made quite clear on that web site that many of the successful children (successful in terms of getting their first preference school) who sit the test spend a fair number of hours per week preparing.

As I have highlighted, the mark your DS2 got may not actually be enough to get a place at the most sought after schools next year (possibly this year but that won't be know until the results are out), assuming the cut off marks continue the upward trend. In light of this the level of preparation you have suggested may fall short of the mark for children now preparing for the test.

I think a point to bear in mind is that the 11 plus exam varies from area to area. A child preparing for and exam that covers just Maths and VR will not need to spend as much time preparing as a child that has to prepare for an exam that covers Maths, English, NVR and VR.

My original comment was addressed to voddiekeepsmesane and was specifically to share my own experiences of the test for the S W Herts consortium. I made the comment after the poster's child had sat the test, and it was intended as encouraging and supportive.

TheFirstOfHerName Thank you for your comments and yes the countdown to the 20th is on

MumTryingHerBest I think you will find that apart from the super "academic" (read pushy) primary schools in and around Watford area that many parents do not do much more than familiarisation and time keeping for the test. You can not go on what the elevenplus website as knowledge of most do ...there are some scarily anxious parents on there

Scarily intelligent and well prepared children, too, Voddie.

My poor DD will not be able to compete

Zero hours here.

We (dh, dd & I) elected to remove ourselves from the whole circus and send dd to the local high school.

voddiekeepsmesane - MumTryingHerBest I think you will find that apart from the super "academic" (read pushy) primary schools in and around Watford area that many parents do not do much more Well good luck to your very bright children (they will need to be within at least the top 4% of their cohort to get a place at the boys grammar (results for this year will be released early November): www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/11plus/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=10227.

My DS is in yr5. It would seem he is in one of the really pushy primary schools in and around Watford because I have yet to meet a parent who is doing just 1 hour a week preperation.

My DS is G&T for maths (4a SATs in all subjects at the end of year 4, the school does not test for level 5 at this stage) and at best I am hoping for Rickmansworth (he sits the test next year).

BTW, there is a housing development that has just broken ground within about 300-400 metres of Parmiters. Can't wait for the catchment to shrink from 1000 metres (approx) to 300 metres next year. It makes it so much easier for local parents.

Of course you already knew all this and are confident that your DC will be one of the 19 children getting an academic place at Watford Boys (out of 450ish applicants this year).

I also assume that the super pushy primary schools you refer to are Nascot Wood, Cassiobury, Knutsford, Chater, Watford Fields, Holy Rood (I know children at all these schools and not one of them is doing 1 hour a week).

voddiekeepsmesane I don't think you said how your DC did on the music test. well done if you got through to the second round.

Onlygrammarisgoodenough Scarily intelligent and well prepared children, too, Voddie.

My poor DD will not be able to compete

What year is your DD in? To be fair, I was blown away by Bushey Academy and I will be more than happy to put it as my safe option (provided I am in catchment next year). I Know someone who has a DD there so have the reassurance I need that my DC will do well there.

MumTryingHerBest you have made a lot of assumptions about what schools we do and do not want. We live 500m away from WBGS but would not send him there. Both his dad and me went to single sexed schools (QE and Catholic Girls boarding school in NZ) and we feel we would rather have co-ed for ds each to their own in regards to that though.

Also while yes I did mean those schools you mentioned as pushy but it is only 6 out of around 25 within 2 miles of Watford town hall. There are a lot of families that do not/ can not tutor but still do the test.

As for the music test DS did not do it nor did he do the sports or NVR test at Bushey Meads for various reasons.

If and that is a big if DS does well when the test results come out then we will look probably at Parmiters and Queens but we are also just as happy to put down Bushey Academy or Westfield as their results are getting better and better year on year.

voddiekeepsmesane MumTryingHerBest you have made a lot of assumptions about what schools we do and do not want. and it looks like my assumptions were correct. Many people who have DCs sitting the SW Herts tests are eager to gain a place at either Parmiters or one of the Watford Grammars (which had pretty much the same cut off mark for 2014 - Parmiters 252 and WGBS 253 so again your DC will need to be in the top 4% of the exam cohort to gain one of the academic places).

I was asking if your DS had done the music test to offer a genuine congratulations BTW. However, I appreciate that not everyone sits the test. Also bear in mind that those who do, still have to prepare for it so it adds to my previous point that the amount of preparation required will be determined by the exams.

Can you explain what you mean by pushy with regards to these schools? As I have DCs at one of the schools, I'm intrigued as to why it is being perceived as pushy.

There are a lot of families that do not/ can not tutor but still do the test. I don't doubt this. I would, however, imagine there is a fairly low success rate in getting an academic place at Parmiters for those that do not prepare for the exams.

As you know the area well you will be fully aware that there are a fair number of children gaining academic places at the most sought after consortiums schools who will have attended a private prep. The local preps,. tutor the children specifically for the 11 plus exam: www.york-house.com/info/31/senior-school-success (scroll down to 2010).

I stand by my point that an hour a week, while possibly being sufficient a couple of years ago, will fall far short of the mark now. I think you yourself have recognised this fact as you have previously stated "We have done 2-3 hours a week throughout the year".

What I don't quite understand is how a child who is tutored for "familiarisation and time keeping" is expected to learn the year 6 maths curriculum. Given the 11 plus maths paper often (granted not always) contains areas that are only normally taught in year 6 I am intrigued as to how the child is expected to acquire this knowledge.