Good manners help behaviour and attainment

[Blandmum]

is anyone even slightly surprised at this?????

Bourneville, I'm not one of the people who can't understand that certain behaviour isn't "common sense" to some people, precisely for some of the reasons you gave. However, I take exception to your phrase "for those of us to whom it comes "naturally" were probably loved & nurtured well in our own childhoods", finding it a bit sanctimonous. I would like to think that it comes "naturally" to me to treat a child nicely - I was praised once by a midwife who was obvserving a baby massage class on how natural and nice I was with dd - but I most definitely was NOT loved and nurtered in my own childhood. I know of course that people who were abused as children (as I was, physically and verbally) are statistically more likely than non-abused children to abuse there own, but there are also many abused children who grow up to be wonderful parents because they are wise enough to recognise and not repeat the mistakes their parents made, and/or because (shock! horror!) they're simply just decent, fair, insightful people with a lot of love to give.

And assuming that parents you see behaving in an inappropriate manner with their kids were "messed up" with children is also, in my view, a bit too holy social worker (a one new to the job, not one embittered and weary after years of experience). The parents in question might have been messed up, they might not have been. A person can have had great parenting, but they still might be the type of person who is, for example, unable to discipline fairly and properly, too selfish to put their needs first, or any other number of human qualities! And contrary to the impression you sometimes get from some MNetts, every parent - regardless of their upbringing - has good and bad days, days when you regret that you behaved in a certain way or did something or other.

Er, that should be "were "messed up" AS children" and "too selfish to put their CHILDREN'S needs first".

oh god taitai i've really landed myself in the poo with this one haven't i? . I completely take back the comment "for those of us for whom it came 'naturally' probably had a loving and nurturing upbringing" - that sounds awful and for that i'm truly sorry and i really honestly don't really believe it. i don't know what else to say, i have no idea why my post went wrong.
i'm so sorry :( Obviously wasn't thinking when posting. of course i don't think everyone who grew up with horrible backgrounds are bound to turn out as bad parents, or that the only naturally nurturing parents are the ones who were loved & nurtured in their childhood... I was just trying to point out that ppl can't be judged by what you see on the surface.

Bourneville, apology accepted I'm sensitive about this because I've seen sweeping statements on MN before to the effect of "parents who were abused are almost guaranteed to abuse their own children". Like a lot of parents, my parents getting it so wrong in a major way was a good lesson to me in parenting. I know how awful it felt to be treated in a certain way, so I could never, ever subject my daughter to the same, regardless of how wretched I felt, simply because I love her so much and it's just not nice behaviour, damn it! Anyway, your point that people can't be judged by what you see on the surface is a very valid one.

TaiTai - you are absolutely right.

I have a lovely friend who was horribly abused as a child (beaten and shouted out by her father and neglected and left unprotected by her mother) who like me is breastfeeding her 20 month old toddler and is one of the most caring and loving mothers I know

I really wasn't saying that anyone who has been abused will go on to be an abuser. I did say "may" in that first paragraph, and was trying not to make sweeping statements, but it was all rather clumsily put! I also know ppl who have had sh*t backgrounds who are the loveliest most caring ppl themselves.

BV - children are impressionable and of course if they experience a lot of abuse they may copy their parents and it may damage them.

I know for a fact that I have "inherited" some of my father's bad temper. He never shouted or hit my mother or his children, he just had a rotten temper with other people, it was his outlet I guess for running a very stressful business.

I am the same, I sometimes take out my anger on total strangers. Not very good, I know, but at least I know I am not damaging my own child.

So, yes, it would be naive to say that children are not effected by the behaviour of their parents.

The good news is some people learn from the mistakes of their parents and grandparents.

Hi Bourneville, just to clarify, I didn't mean YOU when I talked about sweeping statements, as what you said didn't go that far, so sorry if it came across like that. I meant statements from other people I've seen in the past.

Hi TaiTai, i know, the funny thing is i hate sweeping statements too, ironically I posted because i felt like sweeping statements were being made about those parents but in turn i was rather sweeping myself in another way!