single sex education : arguments in favour of?

[mumat39]

Sorry, I'm blatantly copying the heading from another (excellent) post.

Just wondering for those of you that chose this route, why you did?

Many Thanks in advance.

[stealthsquiggle]

I was (single sex educated) and it worked for me as I was almost the only one doing science A Levels and therefore got more or less individual tuition .

I am led to believe that the studies which showed that girls do better in single sex education are more than somewhat outdated, but I don't know for sure.

[stealthsquiggle]

quick google yielded this which looks interesting.

[breadandbutterfly]

I went to a girls' secondary and loved it - there was little pressure on appearance as our school was in the middle of nowhere so no boys for literally miles! so I could go through puberty without having to worry about how I looked - spots etc. There wwere no loud boys to disrpt lessons etc.

My dd is at a similar school and enjoys it for the same reasons. (And does do woodwork and metalwork and lots of sports, BTW>) As the parent of 2 v petite, pretty (IMHO) and in the case of dd2, likely to be vv busty dds, I felt they didn't need the hassle of lots of much larger, hormonal boys. My dd2, in particular, takes after her aunt who is miscule and busty, but unlike her v tough cookie aunt, is v v sweet natured. I suspect she would find coping with the invitable male attention distressing and I'd be worried as she is too sweet and obliging... So I think leaving large-scale contact with boys and that kind of pressure until she's old enough to deal with it, is sensible.

BUT I'd rather my DS went to a mixed school! He is v boyish and I think being in a less all male environment would be good for him and calming.

Plus research shows girls do better in single-sex schools but boys better in mixed.

Luckily not all parents think like this or my cunning plan wouldn't work!

[happygardening]

"He is v boyish and I think being in a less all male environment would be good for him and calming."
breadandbutterfly I'm curious as to what effect you think girls will have?

[breadandbutterfly]

happygardening - I'm hoping girls will broaden his interests outside trad 'male' things - he's v cars, trains, planes etc at the mo, plus socially I'd like him to grow up with respect for women and knowing girls as friends - I worry that there is a danger that due to the way women are presented in the medua/easy availability of porn these days that boys at boys only schools may grow up with a slightly twisted view of women? Not saying it is inevitable but maybe more likely?

[happygardening]

"I'm hoping girls will broaden his interests outside trad 'male' things - he's v cars, trains, planes etc at the mo,"
I dont have girls but work with children. It seems to me that most girls who are of primary school age are interested in ponies pink/purple things hair clips and make up etc would you send your daughter to a mixed school to encourage her to broaden her interests?

[SardineQueen]

"Well I was getting fed up listening to how I'll done to girls are with boys and their awful behaviour!"

Colleger which posts in the thread are you referring to?

I just dipped in and am sad to see another thread where female children are getting something of a bashing and I can't see any posts that have provoked this.

[happygardening]

SardineQueen this is interesting because I felt boys were getting a bit of a bashing!

[SardineQueen]

But where? I have read the thread up to Colleger's post a couple of times and can't really see what provoked her to post "The best thing about boys schools? No hideous girls!".

I was wondering what she had seen that I had missed.

[happygardening]

I'm not actually commenting on colegers posting more about the general idea that boys need girls to become more civilised and stop loving tractors etc and that boys are disruptive in class and stop girls from learning. I don't believe that girls should be pigeon holed and encourgex to to needlework and cooking but I get very irritated when I see boys being stereotyped. My DS's loved diggers and tractors and boyish rough and tumble but as they get older and without the aid of girls my younger DS has truely broadened his horizons and become exceedingly civilised!

[TooManyJobs]

Following up b&bfly regarding effect of girls on boys' interests, I'm not sure what you hope is realistic since the 2 sexes generally seem to avoid each other at co-ed schools, and go around in single sex herds from about Yr 4/5 to Yr 9/10 at least.
My DS is in Yr 8 at a boys senior school and both DH and I were initially unsure about him going there but he was adamant. As others have said, the teachers at a boys school have chosen to be there and they (males and females) do seem to know how to develop their interests in ALL subjects, not just the trad boys ones. We have been surprised and pleased how DS has blossomed in English, art, languages and music plus continues to love sport, science and tech. This has helped him to socialise with girls outside school on a one to one or small group basis in a way he never did at co-Ed primary. Of course he is older too, and has a younger sister (also off to single sex school in Sept) which will also have an impact, but DH and I are now confident that a boys only school is right for DS. Just hope the girls only works for DD!

[SardineQueen]

But if boys are being stereotyped by the parents of boys, then why does that provoke an attack on girls?

I just don't get it and it makes me sad.

[SardineQueen]

I just see children TBH, when they are young, with different interests and personalities.
I think that the attitudes of some adults towards children (particularly of parents of boys towards girls - as evidenced on this thread) might give a boy certain ideas about girls (and how they are basically inferior) which are not desirable surely?
Parents of boys who are dismissive of girls as being "well-behaved" clones who are only interested in make-up - what sort of men will male children will grow into if they have been imbued with this attitude?

The reason girls do better academically at single sex schools, and often are much more confident, is because they have the space to be themselves as people, there is no-one there with an attitude that girls are inferior.

[SardineQueen]

And the fact that it is women saying this stuff, who were once girls themselves, is even sadder.

You don't often get groups of men sitting around discussing how boys pretty rubbish and exclaiming "girls rock!"

[maddiemostmerry]

We moved near to a lovely mixed secondary school, but I haven't chose it for any of my children.

Why? Every time I have looked round it, I have been shown round by girls(mostly lovely). Every work book put out on display, when I looked at the front cover it was a girls book.
We watched displays of music art PE, again mostly girls. If it wasn't for the boys walking past my house in uniform every day I would believe it is a girls school.
I'm not sure why the boys seem so disengaged or why the school seem so unaware of it, but I chose single sex for mine because of this.

[happygardening]

"often are much more confident, is because they have the space to be themselves as people, there is no-one there with an attitude that girls are inferior."
I think the same can be said for boys I'm pretty convinced that I've read some where that boys do as well as girls in the indie sector and the likes of Eton Win Coll and of course the enormously academically successful St Paul's (with according to the FT more A's at A level than any other school be it mixed girls or boys in the UK an incredible 94%) prove that boys can not only do well in single sex but beat the girls. As far as I'm aware of these three have no plans to even admit girls to their 6th forms.
I personally believe that both boys and girls are stereotyped and that this is thoroughly undesirable for both the boys and the girls.

[SardineQueen]

I have not seen an attitude on here or in RL that boys are inferior. As you point out, there are many academic institutions which are male only, and the boys who attend these go on to run the country, the banks, industry and all the rest of it.

You point out that boys outperform girls - which seems like another dig.

And I still don't see where on this thread boys have been getting a bad press, what warranted that various comments about girls being horrible etc.

[SardineQueen]

So not only are girls well behaved clones who are only interested in makeup, horrible etc, but also they are simply not as clever.

And yet still this wail from parents of boys that everything is stacked against them

[SardineQueen]

And OP there is your answer.

The reason for single sex schools is that it is the best way to get away from the rampant sexism in our society.

[fivecandles]

It's not an argument about girls being better than boys but there ARE certain cultural factors and facts that mean I think it is fair to say that it is easier for girls to get a better education when boys aren't around (and maybe for boys to get a better education when girls aren't around but maybe not). For example, it IS the case that boys are more likely to be disruptive and hog the teacher's attention. Boys are more likely to leave school with no or few qualifications which is evidence that for whatever reason, they are struggling to learn at school. There are some appallingly sexist attitudes which girls have to endure not from all boys but from some boys which can make it very difficult for them to learn with boys around. And then there's practical issues like the way in primary schools, girls are often sidelined while the boys take over the playground for football.

BTW, I think that boys are as much victims of this stuff as girls are. It is a problem that the concept of a masculine identity is still very much bound up with physical strength and aggression and sexism and homophobia when actually these qualities are often at odds with academic achievement and increasingly with getting a decent job.

[happygardening]

SardineQueen you seem a little paranoid I pointed out that St Paul's outperforms all not because this is a not boys are better than girls pissing match or for that matter vice versa. But rather to illustrate that boys, contrary to popular perception and encouraged by the media, in the indie sector can do as well and infact better when they attend single sex schools nothing to do with out performing girls. I suggest you reread my postings I am opposed to stereotyping both boys and girls and don't believe either should be seen as calming/civilising influences or for that league table improving solutions but just what they are; boys and girls who should be given as many opportunities as possible to pursue what ever interests them in a sympathetic user friendly environment.

[SardineQueen]

I agree with all of that, fivecandles.

I just find it so surprising that with seemingly no prompting, women start slagging off little girls.

[SardineQueen]

Happygardening it's not me who is paranoid!

Look at what has been said about girls on this thread, for no apparent reason. You had this to say about them

"I dont have girls but work with children. It seems to me that most girls who are of primary school age are interested in ponies pink/purple things hair clips and make up etc "

Girls of primary age are interested in lots of things. Lots and lots and lots of things. I would have thought that someone who worked with children would realise that but if you are working with children and you believe that is the extent of the girls' interests then that is a bit odd.

And I can't agree with this "But rather to illustrate that boys, contrary to popular perception and encouraged by the media, in the indie sector can do as well and infact better when they attend single sex schools nothing to do with out performing girls." as surely everyone in the world knows that privileged boys are the ones who end up running pretty much everything.

[SardineQueen]

I suppose I was reading the thread and suddenly someone just came on and said "The best thing about boys schools? No hideous girls!" and that always seems to happen on these threads and I don't know why and I find it sad.

[fivecandles]

mm.. it's not just boys in the independent sector that do well either.

Have you all heard about the Pinkstinks campaign btw? I think that's great and hugely beneficial to boys and girls. We all should be anti-stereotypes because they neither do boys nor girls any favours but as I can't change social attitudes single-handed I choose to send my girls to a girls school. They're thriving and I think it's bloody marvellous that they never have to endure the sort of awful sexism that I did at school for example. In fact, I don't think they even yet know that the world is still quite a sexist place since dp and I share work and housework and childcare equally. I think they honestly have no idea that some things are considered 'women's work' and some things are considered 'men's work'.

BTW, one thing I've noticed about boys' schools esp primary is that there are more male teachers. I think that has to be a good thing but it's itneresting isn't it? Do men feel more comfortable in boys' schools because they feel their own mascluinity isn't being challenged by being teachers??

My dds go to a school which is diamond shaped - co-ed in kindergarten and VI form but single sex in the rest. It's ideal because they know the opposite sex isn't an alien species but have all the advantages of single sex ed. It also means the school shares the teachers around so my girls get more male teachers than they otherwise would too.

I should point out that I'm not saying there's anything wrong with female teachers but just as in any other environment it's good to have a balance. Nobody wants to be the minority and everybody wants to be somewhere where there are people with whom we can identify just as it's also good tohave some diversity.