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Original poster

The Sad Cloud, opinions please

45 replies

mykidsmum · 12/01/2006 18:36

Hi, at my children's school in reception they have a sad cloud on the wall. If a child misbehaves their photograph is put on the Sad Cloud, for all classmates and parents to see for a week. Would love to hear if anyone has an opinion on this, is it a good thing, bad thing, or does your school do something similar, TIA

OP posts:

robinpud · 12/01/2006 19:32

WEhave a happy board- very frequently used and a sad board in every KS 1 class. If a child misbehaves- then their names is put on the sad board. It is rubbed clean each night and every day is a clean slate. We use the sad board rarely and the happy board as much as possible. It is possible to be simultaneously on both boards- e.g good istening at assembly and punching at playtime.
The clouds you have sound nice mykidsmum but I am unsure how having the photo there for so long helps children to learn the right behaviour. Surely their behaviour varies over the week- is the name moved about over the week ? Is every day a fresh start?

Original poster

mykidsmum · 12/01/2006 19:37

TBH, the cloud and the stars are used very infrequently ie this week 3 children have been on the star and no children on the cloud But no they cannot be on two simultaneously (only one photo of each child) and no it isn't a clean slate it continues until friday. As I said parents spend 20 mins each morning and get to see who is good and bad, and because its a photo there is no confusion, ie some of the names wouldn't mean much to me but i can identify children by their pics. This is also reception and not keystage 1 it seems harsh on kids some of which are only 4

OP posts:

BudaBabe · 13/01/2006 08:57

When my DS was in Nursery last year there were a group of boys who were more "active" shall we say, then the others. Nursery teacher had bright idea of putting their names on special chart (just them) and they got happy face stickers for being good and sad faces for any thing unacceptable. DS's best friend was put on chart after a few days much to his excitement. So next day my DS (3!) tells me he will be naughtly at school to get on special chart!!!!

I told the teacher (in a light-hearted way) but suggested she might think of a better system!! Even some of the girls were trying to get on the chart!

I think putting photos on a Sad Cloud for that long is just not right. It means that whatever they do for the rest of that week means nothing.

Martianbishop - cannot believe some of your stories about Reception children! How awful!

Reminded me of an episode of Oprah where a mother stood up and said that after her 3 yr old DD's first day in nursery, shae asked "what's a blow-job?". Scary.

SleepyJess · 13/01/2006 09:01

Sounds like public humiliation to me. Can't see it working. I would have been devastated to be on the sad cloud when I was a child.. I was that kind of kid.. rarely in trouble but it sometimes happened.. and I used to take 'tellings off' to heart. If I had had to contend with my face on the wall for the world to see how 'bad' I had been as well, I would have been devastated.. probably spent a week close to tears..!

To my mind it would either make a child defiant (and prone to more/worse behaviour) or sad and humiliated. To be ashamed is one thing.. to be publically humiliated is quite another!

SJ x

Enid · 13/01/2006 09:03

haven't read the whole thread but I find the idea completely repellant

stleger · 13/01/2006 09:56

My kid's primary school has a yellow card system - after 3 yellow cards you get a red card, a trip to see the headmistress, and you have to stay in at breaktime next day. (In this weather a benefit?) A week on a chart in reception does seem excessive, a day perhaps?

coppertop · 13/01/2006 10:07

The happy/sad cloud system seems to work well at ds1's school. It acts as a good deterrent IMO. The names (no photos) stay on the sad cloud until the behaviour improves. Some might be there for a couple of hours or possibly a day or two but certainly not for 5 days.

puff · 13/01/2006 10:17

A 4 or 5 yr old's photo under a sad cloud for a week?????????????????

Appalling.

Nothing wrong with having a system in place to highlight appropriate and inappropriate behaviour in the classroom (I used the red, green, amber light one) but the timescales were rather more sensible.

stinkweasel · 13/01/2006 10:38

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Message withdrawn

sibdoms · 13/01/2006 11:17

sounds abhorrent to me.

grammaticus · 13/01/2006 11:27

I think something is needed - the merest threat of a sad face seems to be a massive deal to my ds2 and ensures his prompt compliance (in reception). But a week is much, much too long. A day at the most, surely?

alexsmum · 13/01/2006 11:36

i hate this idea, hate it hate it.
my ds1's reception teacher had a happy sun and a sad sun and if they were naughty their name went on the sad sun. his name was put on it in his first week for going to the toilet without asking.he was four.
he cried that night. and consequently i hated her!
she also used to forget to take names off.one day he was onit for being silly and stayed on for 3 days. when i asked the teacher what awful things he'd been up to to deserve 3 days, she had actually just forgotten to take it off. he didn't know that and thought she thought he was still naughty.
his new teacher makes them come and sit next to her for a while- much more sensible.

robinpud · 13/01/2006 19:29

mykidsmum- i do think the whole idea of a week on the sad cloud is awful. It isn't encouraging good behaviour is it, if you have a bad moment on Monday at 9.ooam there is no incentive to behave for the rest of the week.
Those people who, aside from the length of time the photos are up there, think the whole cloud idea is abhorrent, what are your ideas for behaviour management and are you experienced at working in early years? Have you been into some of themore challenging classrooms out there?

Whizzz · 13/01/2006 19:30

DS has a similar cloud & a sun - but the photos only stay up for a short time - not all week!

stinkweasel · 13/01/2006 19:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Caligula · 13/01/2006 19:37

It's preposterous because it goes on for far too long - a 4 and a half year old child (which is what many of them are in reception) can't remember being naughty yesterday and so all they will see is that they're under a cloud so to speak.

I don't think there's anything wrong with having a negative response to bad behaviour - the traffic lights idea is a great one - but I think this particular way is really quite dangerous, because it runs the risk of re-inforcing bad behaviour rather than avoiding it. If such young kids are in a "sad place" three days after they've committed the offence, they are really being negatively labelled at a very young age and the danger is that they will think of themselves as a naughty child.

I wonder if they monitor the results of these methods? It would be a really interesting project for someone to do to see how effective they are.

singersgirl · 13/01/2006 22:09

A whole week sounds awful! In DS2's classroom they get their name put on the board if they are repeatedly badly behaved, but just for the day. Don't know what happens after that.

Names were put on the board at DS1's first school too for a 1st stage of discipline, for the 2nd stage the child got sent to see the Head of Reception (big international school with 8 classes) and for the 3rd stage they got sent to see the Head of Infants. Only one girl in DS1's class ('the naughty one') ever got to stages 2 or 3 - she got to both!

madmarchhare · 13/01/2006 22:21

Thats a bloody horrible thing to do. I think I would be questioning it with the teacher, what do other parents think?

Meanoldmummy · 13/01/2006 22:28

How shocking - I can just imagine how devastated a little child would be to be stuck on the cloud for a whole week... no child that age should have to suffer a horrible drawn-out punishment like that. It's barbaric

Caligula · 14/01/2006 09:13

And on what behavioural / educational theory do they base this technique?

One of the alarming things I find about some of the descriptions I read on Mumsnet about punishment at school, is the lack of good professional practice that appears to be going on. Am I too demanding in expecting that behaviour management, as with any other aspect of school life, should be based on properly researched theories and practice? It just all sounds so amateurish and arbitrary. I'm just amazed that in an educational system which has banished corporal punishment across the board, effective positive behaviour management techniques appear not to have been adopted as a norm. Why not? Anyone know?

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