50 % of children in dd1's reception class...

[emkana]

... can write phonetically, said her teacher at the parents' evening last night ( not to me, to a friend, our appointment is next week).

Dd1 is not one of them, she is only just starting to blend sounds to words when reading, but verrrrrrrrrry slowly, and she takes great delight in practising to write single letters as beautifully as possible, but she can't write any words at all.

I don't want to, but it makes me feel bad. This is stupid, isn't it? The thing is I'm sure she could do it now if I had spent time teaching her, but I always felt that reading and writing would come soon enough. I still have that pov now, but still want her to be up there as a shining star IYSWIM

We're in Scotland so slightly different here. My DS1 has just turned 6 & started school in August.

I'm a teacher with special qualification in Infant Teaching & I had a son who was not interested in reading or writing at all pre-school. I left him to it & he started in August with no alphabet knowledge or counting much past 12.

He has settled really well & is suddenly eager to learn & doing well.

The point is {at last you say} I was always told, at my education lectures, that assessment of natural ability wasn't really accurate until the child was 7/8 yrs.old.

Up to this point some children have false levels as they come into school with widely different home experiences which can carry them through on a wave for a year or two.

This is true in my case because now DS1 is keen to learn he has a willing helper at home [me]I also know the details of everything he is doing in class so can go over anything I feel he needs support with.

Frogs, couldn't agree more and have read the Diane McGuinness book! And that's what I guessed you meant by the high-order skills - I just wanted to check it wasn't a particular 'technical' usage. I'm very keen on synthetic phonics and absolutely agree that reading could be taught much more coherently than it is. But yes, this thread isn't the right place for another debate....

I think there is an age factor as well. When I started school in Germany everyone started in the September following their 6th birthday, and by Christmas everyone was reading. A few people including me who'd learnt early had a boring 3 months while others caught up, but after that it was fine.

Whereas the UK system seems to labour under the delusion that because some children are ready to read at age 3 or 4, everyone should do it. It's as if we all felt that we ought to start potty training at 12 months. Those whose kids had got it by 18 months would be the system's successes, but the rest of us would endure endless months of hassle and frustration, and produce some fairly hacked-off kids in the process.

The same goes for writing -- I've just spent the summer holidays teaching my 6yo Y2 ds proper handwriting. Because he was requiredby the school to start writing long before he had the fine motor skills to form letters in any way accurately, he'd acquired some terrible habits that took a summer's worth of concentrated practice to undo. And what, actually, does the writing they do in Reception achieve that couldn't be achieved by waiting another year? They could even spend the extra year doing painting, and modelling, learning to do loopy and wavy lines, repeat letter and sound sequences, all of which would set them up to learn writing and reading much more quickly and painlessly.

Luckily I have only one more child to get through the system, and then I quit for good.

That's amazing, Emkana. DS1 is in YEAR 1 and only just learning to write phonetically; he did not write his name (not really) when he started reception last year.

He's one of the oldest in the class; I've always had the impression that DS1 was about average in the class (I help out some afternoons, and his writing ability certainly seems about middle of the bunch to me somewhere inthe interdecile range to me).

Am I right to think you're in Germany? Is reception the same age range there?

In DSs school, I get the impression that the phoenetic writing is more to do with learning what letters/blends make which sounds then it is about writing. It's also about learning pencil control etc. If a child writes a squiggle and says it says "cat" then that's fine too. The teacher just writes in the sentence the child was trying to write so everyone can tell what it says. In Y1, they are encouraged to do more actual "writing", making up stories etc and this progresses through Y2. It's in Y1 that they introduce spelling.

Doesn't writing phoenetically serve the purpose of reinforcing letter sounds and letter blends though? Having seen it in action (from a sceptical point of view!) I disagree that it's simply a confidence booster.

Personally, I'm happy with it as it seems to work. DSs school does have a slightly less conventional/formal approach than some other local schools though.

zebra - I'm German, but I live in the UK.

I believe that being bilingual does slow down initial learning rate for reading and writing. Sil grew up with 2 home languages and was educated in a third, and was definitelyslower to start, but of course she caught up, and continues to use all 3 languages.

Frogs, I agree again about the writing - have exactly the same with DS1, now 7. He learned dreadful letter formation in Reception because they 'encourage' correct formation, but don't strictly teach it, and he's still struggling now. DS2 is no way ready to write physically, even though he can spell quite well. I agree too about the reading - far more 4 year olds (it seems from my limited experience) are not ready to read than are (either developmentally or emotionally - DS1 could do it, but didn't want to). And it takes them two years to get to where they could have got to in six months if they 'd started when they were older. Must stop rambling and go and drink more red wine.

I'm wondering what sort of school this is - My is in reception and can write phonetically. However this was something that she developed at nursery out of her own interest. I'm quite sure that 50% of her class couldn't do this and I would find this % unusual. I wouldn't be worried that your daughter can't do this at this stage, but I would be a bit concerned about the teacher making this sort of statement.

Having worked with childre for a long time I can honestly say dd is doing well. It is better for her to enjoy the experience and not feel any pressure. She will enjoy using her written language more in the long run. As long as she does learn to read and write by the time she needs it then there really should be no problem.

It is my opinion that in the UK the children are pushed too far too fast and end up not enjoy what reading and writing can give us. I live in Italy and children here do not even begin to be taught their alphabet until 5/6 and learn to write/read and 6/7 earliest. The alphabet is simpler as is written language, all word are said as they sound. Children are given more time for play and from what I can see learn far quicker when it is time to learn these things.

Try not to worry and enjoy the experience with your daughter. Doing this will give her a great gift of enjoying the written word.

Scotland seems to be more European in its outlook. If your child is not 5 when the school year starts in August then you don't have to start them.

My DS1 had his 6th b.day at Halloween & just started in August.

Of course som parents choose to send their children when they are 4 [for various reasons]
So now in DS's class he is 6 & he has classmates who are 4 & not turning 5 until the end of February!

I have a friend whose 11 year old wasn't doing joined up writing when she passed her eleven plus! Don't know when she started to write phonetically as we didn't know her then but somehow I doubt it was as young as 5. My children couldn't write at 5 - it hasn't stopped them being in the top SATS groups and the oldest one recently won a council prize for story writing. TBH I'd worry that the school was being too pushy, not about your daughter. At your parents evening I'd check that when they start to write they encourage children to enjoy it and don't fuss too much about spellings at first.