Some stats on private schools £300,000, 000 go to bursaries

[Blandmum]

Interestingly there is an article in this weeks Times Ed on private schools.

At present 7% of all children in the UK attend independent schools

A mori poll showed that 50% of parenst would send their children to private schools if they could.

Current cost is running at £130,000 (from age 5 to 18) Estimated costs for a child born this year are £350,000

Independent schools have an average pupil to teacher ratio of 9:1

in 2004 £300, 000, 000 were awarded as burseries by independent schools (so not spent of golf courses then ) One in three children in an independent have some form of finacial assistance. There are almost as many children getting assisted places as in the peak of the Assisted Places Scheme, but levels of support are lower.

It is estimated that if independent schools were closed it would cost the goverment an extra £2 billion to educate those children in the state sector

(all info from this weeks Times Educational Suppliment)

Just bumping this for you, MB

Twas ijnored yesterday, but I tried not to get upset about it!

9:1! my god I had no idea the gap was so enormous. what an appalling disadvantage for those from state schools. how can they possibly ever compete?
the interesting question, though, is what would happen to the state system if this 7% were reintroduced into it. it would completely change the whole complexion of the state system, in terms of behaviour, parental involvement and so on.
and if all the money from bursaries (and a proportion of the money from fees in increased taxation was distributed among the state sector...
sorry I think I need to go and lie down, I have had a rush of blood to the head...

That is the average, so individual schools will obviously vary.

You wouldn't get the money, since it is often tied up as personal bequests.

You don't solve the probelm by nationalising the private schools, because as we know there would be no extra money found, the over small cake would have to be divided up even further.

You sort out the probelm by putting more money into the state sector....and this government, like all of those that have gone before isn't interested.

having the parents involved would have, imho, very little impact . What you need are schemes to help the dysfunctional partents of dysfunctional children, not a couple more middle class parents n the PTA. But that wpould cost money, so the cynic in me thinks that isn't going to happen either.

I think I disagree about more parental involvement FWIW. it only takes a few interested, articulate parents to make a difference.
why would there be no extra money found? if the political will was there, then there would be. if the middle classes suddenly had to send their children to the "sink schools" that they are so keen to get their children out of (but are somehow OK for the other 93% of the population) then the political will *would be there surely?
I am not looking for ALL of the money, just a little redistribution - not too much to ask for??

Ah, but that is the kill, if the political will was there. Which it isn't, ever!

This is now the third year I have taught A level Biology without text books FFS! A level, so small classes and we still don't have books for them I teach classes where kids share one between three becuaes we don't have enough books.

I end up spending my money to help to educate these kids, so colour me a little cynical!

Must dash, off on hols.

Will have a shufti at the thread when I get back. Have a good time yourself har[sichordc!

Ah, but that is the kill, if the political will was there. Which it isn't, ever!

This is now the third year I have taught A level Biology without text books FFS! A level, so small classes and we still don't have books for them I teach classes where kids share one between three becuaes we don't have enough books.

I end up spending my money to help to educate these kids, so colour me a little cynical!

Must dash, off on hols.

Will have a shufti at the thread when I get back. Have a good time yourself har[sichordc!

Ah, but that is the kill, if the political will was there. Which it isn't, ever!

This is now the third year I have taught A level Biology without text books FFS! A level, so small classes and we still don't have books for them I teach classes where kids share one between three becuaes we don't have enough books.

I end up spending my money to help to educate these kids, so colour me a little cynical!

Must dash, off on hols.

Will have a shufti at the thread when I get back. Have a good time yourself har[sichordc!

Private schools get huge tax breaks by being allowed to claim charitable status. That means all the parents whose children go to state schools are helping to pay for the privileged children at Eton and every other private school. If we took away those tax breaks, that money could go into state schools (if the treasury didn't get their sticky hands on it first, obviously).

Here's the latest plan for state "independent" schools:

At two cabinet meetings last week the deputy prime minister clashed with Tony Blair over a white paper that will wrestle control of secondary schools away from local education authorities (LEAs).

The government envisages a new generation of schools run by independent charitable trusts with the power to set their own selection criteria, curriculums and teaching methods.

Prescott told cabinet colleagues in typically blunt language that he feared the new system would discriminate against the poor by favouring the middle classes and was a reversal of Labour?s comprehensive ideal.

He voiced dismay that the new white paper was promoting a ?public school ethos? that he said should not be celebrated.

He added that Labour already had a chequered record in this area and queried whether the 17 new city academies set up by Blair outside LEA control since 1997 had raised standards.

?Prescott thinks the white paper will create elite schools at the expense of others,? a cabinet source said yesterday.

Under plans to be unveiled on Tuesday, LEAs will be stripped of their power to open schools and all existing schools will be encouraged to opt out of LEA control and become independent educational trusts.

The white paper will propose that local accountability be maintained by the creation of elected ?parent councils? that would have the power to influence school policy and call in government inspectors. Under the plans, schools that opted out would be expected to group together in charitable trusts run by private companies, churches or even private schools.

This way resources could be shared and places for children of all abilities provided, while still allowing for selection and streaming within individual schools.

from the Sunday Times here

good point edam.
charitable status my a*

Plus £300 million sounds like an awful lot, but doesn't really mean much until you know what the revenue/profits of the sector is. £300m out of how much? What proportion of independent school income is spent on bursaries?

The idea that private schools are doing the state system a favour is a joke, really. If you choose to send your child to an independent school, fine, that's your business. But don't pretend you are helping other children. You are not.

(I went to state and independent schools, btw, so am not particularly biased towards one or the other).

edam, do you think that is the point of the article?? god I didn't read it like that.
well that would be a bit rich, wouldn't it?
no wonder universities and employers find it so difficult to compare the results between sectors when there is such a huge disadvantage for state school pupils.

What a sick system. £300,000,000 available in bursaries, from which 7% of our children can benefit. I'm speechless.

"....queried whether the 17 new city academies set up by Blair outside LEA control since 1997 had raised standards."

Anyone have any idea which schools/where these 17 new city academies are?

I know, that's why I always find news stories about 'good' universities taking 50 per cent of their students from state schools, as if they are discriminating against the private sector, so hilarious. If universities genuinely chose on aptitude, not what school you went too, only 7 per cent of places at Russell Group universities would go to kids from private schools. The fact that they get more than half the places at Oxbridge shows the system is still hugely biased in their favour.

Well, quite, edam. I did go to one of those "elite" universities myself, from a comprehensive school background, so like yourself I've no particular axe to grind. But when you consider those simple statistics, it becomes clear that the independent school system is a very powerful means of maintaining the status quo.

list of city academies here

Thanks iota. I read the article to say that these were "new" academies, so interesting to see that they are all replacing existing schools, so not new at all....but, I am not British, so must admit that I find the education system a bit baffling...

We live near the Greig Academy and I have to say that no one I know would dream of sending their children there.

The reputation of the old school proceeds it. Still not convinced that a paint job and a new building have done much. IIRC they have already had a change of head.

If you talk to anyone around here... bargepoles come into the conversation.

city academy

just shows that chucking more money, and coming up with new fangled initiatives will never cure the root of the problems. If kids come from dysfunctional homes, live in sink estates and politicos keep coming up with initiatives to justify their existence, the problem will never be solved. IE: put decent money in books, infrastructure, pay; give teachers and their schools back the right to discipline the pupils; and challenge parents who show no responsibility for the discipline of their children.

the other looming education timebomb is the current consultation on pay restructure - not about pensions and working age - but that is another thread.

Marslady - echo what you say. We live near the Mossbourne Academy (also known as the Mossbourne Boot Camp), don't know a single parent who, given the choice, would send their child there.

They are supposedly an ICT specialist school. At their most recent presentation to parents the head clearly did not know how to use powerpoint, and the deputy's overheads were so poor even those parents at the front could not read them!

If that is the best the school leaders can offer in ICT, their specialist subject, God help the kids.........

Dino, maybe I am wrong but as I understand it the £300,000,000 in burseries that are available are not funded by us or the government, but by the schools themselves.

I am in a quandry about tis now, with years to go. I went to a private school for a year, my brothers went to boarding school, dh also went through this system. We don't have the money for private schools, but could perhaps get it from my parents (as a kind of 'pre-inheritance'). Do we look into it seriously, or say 'sod it' and stick with local schools. DD1 is only in Yr1 and I am aready thinking about it!! Local schools are ok, she is not bright enough for the local grammer school, so I think a private school might give her the additional attention and support to help her from average to better than avereage IYKWIM. The school I would choose it Dh's old school and it is fantastic.

Politics don't come into it with my kids, I just care what is best for them.

Quite common in families I know for gandparents to foot the fees either by setting up a trust fund or paying the bills year to year. I'm sure there's prob some inheritance tax benefit to this as well for those that have the option.