Sanction for Assault?

[suedonim]

This relates to uni rather than school but I reckon Mnetters will have an opinion anyway! My 18yo dd has just had a nasty experience at uni. She was standing chatting with some others in her uni kitchen when all of a sudden, an unknown man leapt in through the first floor window. He then proceeded to viciously punch one of her friends until he was on the floor and then kicked him repeatedly, so hard that the assailant's shoes flew off.

To cut a long story short(ish) Security noticed the hubbub on their CCTV and managed to catch the bloke and hand him over to the police. He's been charged with assault, which he has admitted. It turns out that he is in fact another student, living on the same campus as dd and the victim. DD and the others are not happy about this bloke still being around the place and would like the uni to throw him out. Do you think that's a reasonable sanction or should he be given a second chance?

depends on why he did it. sounds like he's mentally ill really and might be alright with treatment?

There HAVE to be more details and circumstances. Difficult to give a fair opinion without knowing all the facts.

He should be kept away at least until they have got to the bottom of it though.

bloody hell! i would totally expect him to be thrown out for that!

Reckon he should have to go. It sounds vicious. Was there any reason/motive? Especially if none, I really hope it goes all the way through court and he gets a prison term.

If he lives in uni property, ie halls of residence, I reckon that would be a breach of his contract and they could terminate his occupation immediately.

When I was at uni one of our housemates went awol on my 21st birthday, we had a party at in the early hours of the morning he returned. We were sitting in the living room and he went into the kitchen not saying a word and returned with a kitchen knife and started threating us. Then tried to cut his own wrists. The police/ambulance was called and the uni was notified. To cut a long story short he was excluded from uni (it was discovered that he was taking steroids as part of his body building obsession and I heard he cleaned up his act and was readmitted the following year).

As far as dd's lot are concerned, that is the whole story - none of them knew this bloke at all, they'd never seen him before, he isn't on any of their courses. The only thing he said to the police was that he's mistaken 'X' for someone else. But he had to scale a wall to get up into the flat, so it wasn't exactly a passing blow. Dd says he didn't appear to be drunk but I wonder if drugs were involved? No one particularly want him to go to prison, actually, but X would like some money to pay for the extensive dental work he needs, poor boy. I have to admit to a smidgen of sympathy for the attacker's parents - they've been called to the uni and it must be dreadful for them, as well.

One thing the flatmates will ask for is that the small roofed porch outside the flat where the intruder was able to get a purchase to climb up is secured - there are seven girls in dd's flat and they now feel rather vulnerable. But I'm so glad the uni has CCTV, and the police have been very good so I'm counting our blessing for that.

i would expect him to be suspended for a term or so, till he sorted himself out as to why he did it, not to do it again etc, and then not to be allowed back into halls, but to find some other accommodation on his return. When I was at Uni, someone was expelled for weeing in a college fountain(!).

and many sympathies to DD and her friends. I would imagine that the friend that was injured might be able to apply to the Criminal Injuries Compensation Scheme for a payment (which would hopefully cover the cost of the dental treatment)

He will almost certainly be handed over to the University's Discipline Board BUT if the police are involved it is unlikely that they will see him until the case has gone to court.

Your DD and her friends have a very good case for asking for him to be removed from the same campus though. They need to approach the Hall Management team and ask what is being done. The Uni is actually in a very tricky position-when I dealt with Student discipline cases we had an incident where a female student accused a male student on her course of rape. The evidence against him was pretty overwhelming, nonetheless we had to negotitae with the male student to get him to suspend study voluntarily until the case weent to court. He was found guilty and chucked out. But another student who went to prison for dealing drugs (smack not just dope)from her halls took the Uni to the Visitor to appeal against being chucked out....

Have central student welfare services been informed yet?

I'd expect him to be thrown out of the Halls for a start as whatever the cause, he is clearly a danger to staff and students.

And I'd expect the uni to put anti-climb paint on the walls and roof. My sister was attacked by an intruder who climbed in through her first-floor bathroom window - the tiny opening at the top was ajar because it was a heatwave. You could never have imagined a grown man would fit through it. It was a very, very frightening experience. It is NOT safe to leave first-floor windows open - the guy who assaulted my sister used a wheelie bin to get up and then climbed up the drainpipe. I wouldn't wish her experience on anyone - she came within a hair's breadth of being raped.

I do hope your dd and the other students recover from this dreadful experience and that the university and police deal with it appropriately.

Thank you for the replies. I must say, dd has been very calm about it all and dealt with it very maturely. Marialuisa, I don't know whether CSWS knows but as the uni security staff were involved I imagine they will have been told. Will check it out with dd, though. Edam, your poor sister. I hope she's recovering okay. Thanks for the tip about anti-climb paint, will pass that on. I'll update if and when I hear any more.

I did lie in bed last night thinking about this boy. He's really messed up and I'm sure he's pretty stunned about what he's done. I'd be devastated if he was my son.

The latest is that dd says there is to be a meeting between the intruder and dd's friend, under uni auspices. Her friend has asked dd to go with him as her supporter. I hope something positive emerges.

I don't think it matters why the attacker did it, what's very obvious is that he can't be allowed out on his own. If he is capable of scaling a wall in order to attack a total stranger, he's simply not safe out. Who cares whether it's drugs or drink, or any other cause, actually? Who the hell wants it next door to them? I wouldn't.

I wouldn't go to a meeting with my attacker, I don't believe this is the right way for the uni to go about dealing with this.

Thinking more about this, the idea of them having a "meeting" is a bit odd.

Unless it involves an apology and an idea of atonement on the part of the attacker, it sort of almost puts the victim on the same level as the attacker. I can't imagine that meeting the attacker is a very easy thing to do, and it might be very traumatic for your DD's friend. Even in cases of restorative justice, the victim of crime is put through quite rigorous counselling before they meet the criminal, because it's recognised that such meetings can be incredibly traumatic and are sometimes of more benefit to the perpetrator than the victim.

Cam/Caligula, I've become quite uneasy about this meeting, as well, I'm not at all sure what it is meant to achieve. I'm a bit concerned that the attacker most likely doesn't really remember my dd individually, in the heat of what happened at the time, but that he's now going to get the chance to have a good long look at her and will henceforth be able to easily identify her anywhere. I'm going to try to get hold of dd (not easy with her v active social life!!) and find out exactly what is going on.

See what you mean Suedonim, agree entirely, please keep us posted.

Omg, it's all gone pear-shaped. Dd attended the meeting along with her friend, A, who was assaulted. The guilty party, M, didn't turn up but, strangely, another girl, J, from dd's flat did. The two warders have decided that they believe M's story and J's story - which is odd because J wasn't even there!! I won't go into the details of who-said-what but J is telling out-and-out lies and M is making it up as he goes along. The upshot is that M has been given a big fine but A has also been fined, albeit suspended, for 'provocation'. WTF?????

The thing that I am really, really angry about is that it transpires that the two 'warders' are in fact merely two second year students!!! WTF gives them the right to hold a kangaroo court and issue verdicts and punishments on what is a criminal case?? This isn't a dispute over eating someone else's baked beans, fgs, this is about two crimes - entering a flat uninvited & frightening four girls, newly away from home, and seriously attacking a fellow student.

Ds2 is a research student at the same uni and went through the roof when I told him. He's going to find out exactly what's going on tomorrow and take it to the top because the issue is just not being treated seriously enough. Suppose there'd only been one girl in the flat - could she have been raped? What if M had grabbed a knife and stabbed someone, possibly fatally?

It will be taken further - we're not paying g*dknowshowmuch a month so our daughter can be put at risk while at uni - it has a duty of care towards its students, a duty it seems to be avoiding.

G*d, I can't tell you how angry I am, I can see a sleepless night ahead. I wish dh was here.

Unbelievable Suedonim.

Sorry, I had no idea that the police hadn't been called immediately. Has this assault not been reported? How many witnesses were there altogether?

The police attended immediately, Caligula, and were v good. M had to cool his heels in the cells all night and was later charged with assault, which he has admitted. I assume he'll appear in front of the sheriff for sentencing at some stage. There were four witnsses to what went on and the police took statements from them all at the time. I don't know what on earth's going on. [worried emoticon]

Well whatever's going on there is quite patently and verifyably out of order then.

If I were A I would refuse to pay the fine and demand evidence of what "provocation" I had offered which was enough to deserve being the victim of an out of the blue attack. I'd also make a formal complaint about the kangaroo court to anyone who would listen. If no-one would, I'd threaten to go to the local press. In short, I'd make as much trouble as possible.

What on earth are they playing at?

First, I must apologise for my language last night - I was a bit het up! Many thanks for the support, Caligula and others. It's good to have a sounding board and get feedback. I've not heard any more today, but I trust that dd is too busy with lectures and tutorials to be able to call me!

PS. A doesn't have to pay the fine as it's been suspended, but that's not the point.

This is why I was worried about the meeting Suedonim, there could have been no good reason to call a meeting between assailant and victim in any circumstances. Always an excuse for the "authorities" to continue with the victimisation IME.

Most authorities, where something wrong has happened, rather than admit it, attack as a form of defence and try to apportion blame elsewhere.