DS excluded from school, and bullied, want to appeal, HELP please.

[nicmum2boys]

Am typing late at night, tired and emotional, and a few glasses of wine the worse for wear, so I hope this makes sense!
This week has been an awful week for us, on Monday eve got a phone call from the Head of DS1's school saying there had been an incident where my son had hit another boy in the face, causing an injury, and she had decided to exclude him from school the following day. We were ed to say the least, DS (who is just 5, and in yr 1) has never been in trouble at school, except for a brief spell last year, when he started lashing out at other children, and it transpired that he was the victm of bullying, and this was the only way he could find to express his anger. All was sorted, so we thought, and he moved to year 1, and is in a class of mixed yr1&2 pupils. Anyway, naturally we have been to the school and spoken to the head, and expressed our concerns about him lashing out for the same reasons as before, and she assured us that DS would be closely watched to try to get to the bottom of it all. Meanwhile DS has sat and written an apology to the boy he hurt (VERY hard for him, he does not find writing comes naturally) and has personally given it to him under supervision. We are very angry that the head chose to exclude him based on this one incident, and given his previous record and age did not choose to investigate thoroughly before acting (we feel).
Further still a certain boy lets call him "Adam" has persistantly kicked and pinched DS over the past few weeks, and called him a squiny baby, and we wondered if this may have contributed to (but not excused) his actions.
If this weren't enough to worry about, DS came home last night with a bump on the back of his head and when asked told us that another child, let's call him "Liam" had held his head and bashed it against a wall. I felt sick, he was supposed to have been closely monitored. On top of this I had seen his teacher and specifically asked her at the end of the school day if he had been ok, and she made no mention of the incident. So, today there I was again at the school, being assured they were taking this all very seriously, but the little boy in question was denyinmg all knowledge and no one witnessed said incident. They are supposedly carrying out further investigations.
I feel like the school is some faceless machine, and all they care about is not admitting they are in the wrong, that my DS lashes out once and is suspended, but any little brat who feels like having a pop at him can do so. I feel the school has failed him big time. The question is, what to do? We want to appeal against the exclusion, just to get something +ve on his record, and write a formal complaint about the bullying and how it (wasn't) dealt with. Does anyone have experience of this? What is the best way to go about it? I know there are alot of knowledgeable and lovely people out there, and we really need your help. Any advice gratefully received. Just want to wrap DS up and keep him safe .
OK rant over, over to you.........

Nicmum - hope you enjoy the film!

Soapbox - I chuckled when I read your post about a school inviting parents in to help supervise the playground. That's a very imaginative response!

Regarding moving schools. Just bear in mind that if there unresolved issues regarding your son other schools might not be quick to take him up. I don't want to imply anything, as you said your son has been on the receiving end....but that might not be as well documented on his report.

Don't want to be a downer....and not implying anything about your sonn, but I just don't want you to apply to other schools and get a knock back, IYSWIM. Better I think to sort out the issues and later look at different schools IYSWIM

Anyone there? I need to talk.
Had a v busy weekend, as making a big fuss of DS and also getting all DHs stuff ready as he is off to Germany today for the rest of the week (great timing, not).
Over the weekend DS gave us the name of a little girl that was also involved with "Liam" the little boy who bashed his head against the wall, and also told us that as "Liam" was banging his head he said "there, that'll teach you", but he doesn't know what he meant by that. This comment really worries me as it means he knew what he was doing.
So, this morning, I spoke to his teacher, and asked who had been assigned for him to "tell" if anything happened (this was one of the courses of action that was laid out on Friday), and she shrugged her shoulders and shook her head. So I pushed the point, and she said, "well, he could go to X the early years coordinator" (who was his teacher last year), except of course that X wont know this, but that's a different matter. I told her that he was frightened and didn't want to come in,(which he didn't, but decided eventually he would go in as there is a music festival today, but on arriving at school we find it's cancelled). Anyhow X is standing by the main gate letting people in, so I stop and speak to her, as I want to make a time to speak to someone about what came up at the weekend (incidentally I mentioned to his teacher that some more stuff had come up, and she didn't ask what, or offer to see me privately to discuss it ).:
Me: Some more stuff came to light at the weekend
Her: Right, are you coming to parents eve on Wed you can discuss it with Y (DS's teacher) then.
Me:No, it can't wait, this is important.
Her:Right if you go to reception and make an appt to see the head then.
Me:Can you tell me who has been assigned to investigate this?(I wanted to know who I should be speaking to so everyone involved knew what was going on)
Her:go to reception and make an appt to see the head
and so it went on with her just repeating herself, so she obviously did not want to talk about it.
I got very very upset, as i felt I was being fobbed off, and stormed off to reception, where of course they can't get hold of the head til lunch time, so I am now waiting for a phone call from her and .
Am left feeling totally alone in this (DH is away), and like they are doing nothing to protect him. The little S* who did this might do some serious damage next time, and it feels like something really awful has to happen before they will act. I want someone watching my son all the time in the playground, I really feel like just going up there and bringing him home so I know he is safe. and scared.

Hi Nicmum2boys, I think the only thing I would have done this morning is waited at the school until I saw the head, this is (as you're well aware) a very serious issue and needs sorting NOW.

Maybe though, you have this morning to think fully about what you want to say to the head, it might be an idea to write down a few notes to remind yourself as a lot has happened.

Sorry I cant be much help, I just didn't want you to feel alone. Let us know what happened at lunchtime.

love M xx

This is a long thread and I have skimmed it rather than read it but can imagine your distress, especially as dh is away. As a a parent,teacher and Governor here is some advice for your meeting with the Head.

1. Make sure that they know exactly what happened from start to finish and that they have talked to your ds quietly on his own.
2. Do you have a copy of the school behaviour and bullying policy? Were you made aware that if you opposed the exclusion, I believe that you have the right of appeal to the discipline committee of the governing body. All state schools have to have one, even if they have never met.
3. Try to discuss ways of reinforcing the right behaviour for your child and those in his peer group. Ask how the school intend to do that and ask how you can support and reinforce at home. Do they have playground pals, nurture group or anything else designed to help playtimes and rebuild self esteem? Keep calm.Listen carefully and ensure that the lines of communication are clear. Who is going to keep you posted? Who will support your child?

Moving schools is an option depending on where you live, but as a year 1 teacher unless your child is very socially adept, it isn't a time I would want to move him unless it was the only option left to you.

Good luck- there is some wise advice already on this thread. Boys can often take a little time to settle and he has been in school a short time really.

nicmum, I'm not surprised you are feeling worried. Agreements were made to ensure your son had an adult he could rely on to speak to, and it seems the teachers have not ensured this is in place.

I'd set a time by which you expect to hear from the Head - if you've not had a call by 2pm, ring again. Insist on an appointment this afternoon.

thanks guys. I am absolutely beside myself. I'm so worried about him . I know I need to calm down, and make lots of notes about what I'm going to say, and what we agree on. I'm used to working in an environment where agreements are made in writng (well, many moons ago before children i was!), and I'm finding it hard to keep track of everything, so I need to make notes, should have done this on friday.
Thw fact that his teacher couldn't answer my basic but fundamental questions, and that the early years coordinator wanted it to wait til wed night don't speak to me of them taking this seriously .

The notes will help you to stay calm too and, show just how serious the issues are to you.

Good point from PrincessSM about the right to appeal against the exclusion - I'd forgotten about that.

I do hope you can get this resolved with the school nic. If it were me, tomorrow, I'd also start the "looking at other schools" option - not because this is what you want to do at this stage, but it's important that you feel you have as much control over the situation as possible, and have an overall plan. You don't need to explain anything to other schools, just ring and pretend you are/may be moving into the area and are currently looking at options.

I wouldn't start looking at other schools until you have some presepctive on things. It's easy to let things fester away in your mind and not enjoy having a life. Allot this problem a certain amount of worry time and then put it away for a little time. Keep busy, do other things and sleep on it for a while. "doing something" - being proactive about an issue is sometimes a way of occupying yourself but can give you more issues to deal with. I thin you and your ds need a break from this as soon as possible.

Yes we were informed by post the day after our initial meeting with the head that we had the right to appeal, might have been nice to know beforehand, funny how they kept that quiet, we think. At the moment the whole bullying issue has kind of put the exclusion on the backburner. don't know if there is a time limit to appeal, but don't feel hopeful of getting anywhere with that one, I mean she can't undo what's been done can she? Would be nice to have our point of view on his record though.
With regard to changing schools, if I ring and pretend to have moved, and thy take our name, won't it be a little obvious I have lied if we later apply? Must say I don't want to move him, only because of unsettling him though, NOT from any allegience to the school needless to say.

A break, how PSP? I know it's 1/2 term next week, but not sure how I can switch off from this to be honest.

Ah, well a friend has rung up schools and if asked name, made one up! I know, I know, bit cheeky but she needed to be clear about her options, without going into the rigmarole of why she was enquiring.

PrincessSM sensibly gives the other POV on this, I just know that I am someone who wants to be clear about all the options early on.

Changing schools is definitely "last resort" territory IMO too.

i would ask for a copy of the complaints proceedure - you need to know the reporting process.

i would ask the school what punishment "liam" got for assaulting your son.

my son was 14 when he was in a fight at school. the other lad was saying viscious things - about me ( he had never met me) but things around "you F@ck your mother shes a slag" etcetc. making sexual references in relation to my son and me. so this ended in a fight - my son pasted him. my son gets suspended - or excluded whatever for a day.

we phoned up pretty upset and spoke to the deputy head and the head of year we explained the situation and asked what punishment the other lad had got - like you we said we accept ds exclusion as we accept he did wrong - we dont however accept that the other kid was blameless. eventually the parents of this other kid was called in and he got a weeks detention - BUT ...but only after we had phoned.

your child physically assaulted another child and imo your kid has been punished.
the other kid who assaulted your child has not been punished

the school agreed with you some proceedures to help and escalating situation - which they did not follow through. you can explain that whilst you are trying your best to be supportive of the school and their proceedures - that they are making it increasingly difficult when they refuse to impliment an agreed strategy. whether this is on purpose or by omission there is no excuse. you want to work with them in a true partnership to enable your son to get the best education he deserves. the school should aslo we working to that aim.

next time you agree a strategy with school, ask for a meeting with the head, the class teacher and the parents of the other children - ask "who is minuting this discussion" and "when will we all recieve a copy"

They will not tell us what action has been taken (that is if they ever get round to taking any action) only that the matter is being "dealt with", had this all last year when a different boy repeatedly tormented DS. I know they will not agree to meeting the other parents with us, as that would break confidentiality.
Yes should have asked who was minuting on friday....thinking about will ask the head today if I can have a copy of the minutes of fridays meeting. Will be interested to see if they exist.

if other parents agree it wouldnt be breaking anything - and would prove your willingness to resolve the issues if the other parents decline.

By taking a break- and don't think I am being glib I know how tricky it is to think about anything else when your children are unhappy, I mean don't allow this to be the only thing you are thinking about. You are a family with lots of special things to share and enjoy. Try to find ways of switching off from it so that you do enjoy the half term, otherwise it will assume mammoth dimensions and overshadow all the positives you and your ds have.

nicmum, sorry the teachers are not making this any better at the moment. Think PSM has an interesting perspective. Believe me, I know that if you feel your child isn't safe and happy in the school environment, its hell.

But this will get resolved one way or another.

Custy's advice is spot on.

Sending you hopeful vibes, love Cam xxxxx

Hi everyone, sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you all. Everything was just so overwelming, I just didn't want to have to deal with it unless I had to iyswim, and then it's been 1/2 term and DH has been off, so we've beenspending time together as a family.
So, to pick up roughly where I left off:
DH spoke to the head last Monday, and she was very apologetic, and said they are taking the matter seriously. We agreed that I would liase with her secretary about everything that DS came home and told me about, and that his teacher would start a home link book so that she could write any thoughts, or things she has noticed in that. It turned out that there has been someone assigned for DS to "tell" - a dinner lady that he trusts, it's just that she hadn't communicated the fact to his teacher. We also agreed to meet up on wed eve at parent's evening.
On the wed I had v interesting meeting with DS's teacher, it turns out she is only recently qualified, so kind of explains why she seems a bit floppy over it all, as she has no teaching experience really. But she had some really positive things to say, and lots of ideas about how to help DS talk about what's happening, so I left her feeling much more confident she will be on the ball from now on (here's hoping).
I then had a marathon meeting with the head (1 hour!!) at the end of which I was exhausted, and non the wiser about progress (there has been none, basically it looks like "Liam" is going to get away with it as no one saw him, and he is denying it). However, she did make some interesting comments about how DS interacts with other children, and how it might come across as annoying, and so causing their reaction (this is a very breif outline of what was said). I can see her point to an extent, he can be a bit like tigger and bound up to you, and doesn't really realise how overpowering this can seem. So the discussion with her was mainly centered around helping DS to relate to others better. I am going to see the special needs coordinator after the hols and see what she has to say.
Now I have had time to mull it all over though, I am absolutely worried sick that maybe DS has behavioral or developmental problems, and they are just too pc to say that is what they suspect, is that why she suggested seeing the sn coordinator? How would we know? Who can I ask apart from the school, would it be the Doctor, or health visitor?
I am also a bit put out that yes DS may be partly inviting certain reactions from children, but there wasn't really any talk about the fact that what these kids are doing is wrong, and they need to be stopped.
So, a bit further on, but not really any clearer.
Thanks guys for some really great advice, really appreciate the time everyone has taken to reply.
Have deffo taken on board what you said PSP, and been taking a break this week (thanks ).
Just have these nagging doubts whenever DS does/says something which we think might not be quite right that maybe he does have problems . Feel like a bad mum for doubting my son, then feel like a bad mum cos what if he does need help and I haven't spotted it???

Without wishing to be negative, it sounds a bit to me like the head is blaming your DS for being bullied.

OK, maybe he's tigger-like and bounds up to other kids, but does that really justify them hurting him? I don't think so. Yes, he could probably benefit from learning skills not to be bullied, but is the responsibilty for not being bullied all down to him?

Having had time to think about it, I'd be annoyed and discouraged by that. Especially as the actual incidents of his being bullied have not been acknowledged (except by the implication that it's his fault - well, if it's his fault, fine, but how is the behaviour of the person who hurt him being addressed? And if it didn't happen and there's no behaviour to address, why is his bounding around tigger-like a problem?)

I know caligula. Just don't feel like we are ever going to get to the bottom of this. I'm going to keep telling the secretary what has happened, (she is very good as it happens, and actually has some listening skills), and request another meeting end of next week.
She as good as said she didn't think this "Liam" did it, as he is apparently about 1/2 the size of my DS. She just talks you round in circles. She would make a very good polititian, but I am just trying to be a good Mum, and feeling like I am failing to support him where he needs it.
On the plus side he always can tell me something positive about the day, so he is still enjoying school as a whole. Thankfully he doesn't realise how serious this all is.

I know I'm a trouble maker, but tbh I would follow up a meeting like that with a letter thanking the head for her time and her constructive approach, and confirming what was discussed in the meeting. I would do it like a minutes, having discussion points in one column and action points in the next, and leaving the Liam incident conspicuously bare or put "No action" in the space, so that it's in black and white that the school have chosen to ignore this. You could include a comment that you're not happy about the lack of acknowlegement of the incident.

Written records sometimes galvanise people into action, and if nothing else, they may be needed in the future (hopefully not, but you never know).

i wouldnt be happy, i would write your thoughts down and ask for a response in writing. you can even explain you do not think you get the best outcomes from meetings.