Applying to American Universities

[jem44]

Has anyone been through the process of having a child apply to US Universities? I would really appreciate any tips or advice anyone can offer please.

Thanks

First stop should be the fullbright commission in London.

www.fulbright.co.uk/

Thank you

The international admissions officers for Harvard and Yale came to my town last month to recruit UK students. It was fascinating. It was recorded and put on the school website. Here is the link. Just click on the presentation and you'll get the talk and the powerpoint

www.tonbridge-school.co.uk/news/2010/09/23/harvard-and-yale-admissions-visit-tonbridge/

What do you want to know?

Depends a bit on the College, is your DC interested in Ivy league? I can tell you about that if helpful.

Thank you for that eatmyveg - just what I need!

I would go to the Uni website that interests you; admissions criteria in USA aren't half as standardised as they are in the UK, so you really need to look at the website.

For Ivy League (Bonsoir's interest) the applicant has to excel on the extra-curricular side. They've got plenty of brainy applicants, brains doesn't impress them much; instead they are looking to recruit the next generations' leaders in each field.

All that applies for undergrads, btw, for post-grads the Ivy League Unis are much easier to get into, actually, much more dependent on actual academic ability at that level.

From a cost perspective the Candian schools are very good value for money. They also do work placement programs where you gain experience as you progress through your course.

I know quite a lot about the process - happy to answer any questions if I can! :)

Thank you very much for your very useful help everyone.

Checkmate, yes it would be Ivy League and for Liberal Arts. I am wondering about Brown, Dartmouth, maybe a shot at Harvard? She is especially interested in English and Languages. Am I on the right track? Do you have any suggestions please? DH completed a Fulbright Postgrad at Georgetown almost 20 years ago but don't have up to date knowledge and anyway, everything seems so much more serious now - then it seemed as though he just bunged in an application and way to go! No anxieties about being a 'rounded person' until I looked in the mirror after a few weeks worth of Big Macs!

DD will apply to the UK too but the flexibility of study in the States is very attractive as she wants to do a combination of things which aren't available in combination at Oxbridge, though Durham does a lovely looking combined course and others allow combinations too. My husband rates the teaching quality and attention given to undergrads very highly in the US.

I am wondering if applying to both is horribly time consuming. How much prep would you say is needed for SATs? Are there any tips and wrinkles I should be aware of? How many should she apply to if she goes ahead - things like that really, if anyone has any further wisdom to share please?

I can tell you about Harvard. Apparently the Yale system is very, very similar. (I am involved at a low-level in interviewing UK applicants.) Harvard interview everyone who applies, as they feel a lot can be missed otherwise.
Everyone I've interviewed has applied to at least one other US college, as well as Oxford or Cambridge and another UK Uni. As well as top grades in GCSE's and A'levels, the student also needs to do very well with the SATS tests. A certain amount of leniency is applied to the Verbal Reasoning mark for UK applicants though, as this style of test is something that our students are just not used to, so they often underperform a bit.

I'm not involved in making final decisions about students - my report on their interview is one thing that the Panel considering, along with grades, extra-curricula and admission essays. Their ultimate consideration with UK applicants of a high caliber, is; Does this student gain something from coming to Harvard that they could not gain from Oxford/Cambridge? Many excellent applicants are turned down purely on this factor; a deep commitment to the Liberal Arts system on offer is something that should be demonstrated to help avoid this.

There are some things I've picked up along the way. These may not be set in stone, but are things I've joined the dots on myself.

• No student I've interviewed has got a place if they've got even 1 C (or below) at GCSE. I've had amazing candidates with 12 A*, but then a C in art or a language they've suddenly picked up for a bit of fun; it doesn't seem to matter, its been a no.
• The essays are key in standing out from the crowd. These need to be erudite, intimate and unique.
• The level of extra-curriculas is important. Basically, the Panel want to see that something has been taken to the highest level it could be, according to the opportunity the student has had. Grade 6 piano and on the school A netball team doesn't cut it. Harvard has amazing sports coaches, and sometimes they will lobby the Panel to "get" a student perfoming at a high level in a Varsity Sport. It can be worth contacting the coaches directly about this - the interviewer will discuss this with applicants.
• Someone from a family & school where there have been less opportunity for extra-curricula are given more credit for lesser achievements. However, the problem these student then face is getting over the aforementioned hurdle of "what would you get out of Harvard that you personally couldn't get from Oxford". A massively higher proportion of Independent school children still get in, though not exclusively so, and we're working on it! Last year was a bumper year for Eton boys getting into Harvard, for example.

I can answer questions about the interview process if that's helpful for anyone.

I'm a big fan of the Liberal Arts system, and would love our DC to have the same opportunity; we specialise way to young, in general, in the UK. Harvard is an amazing experience in so many ways, but its highly oversubscribed and there are other great colleges and Universities too.

HTH

I should have edited my typing before outing myself as a volunteer with Havard!

Breastfeeding whilst I type though, and short on time!

Fab info checkmate - DS is in year 9 so its useful to know this sort of stuff now.

Great. Well done starting to plan it now - it is a lot of work and supportive parents make all the difference.

this is where you can find out everything you need to know about applying to Harvard from the UK.

Thanks for the link - DS will be choosing options this year and so the info about the "fun" GCSEs is particularly useful. I think his fun GCSE will be drama and so he would still be expected to get a high grade in that. He may as well consider the US since all bets are off for UK tuition fees.

Go to a US university open day, such as the one that is held each year at ASL.

Surely it will cost more to send offspring to a USA university than a UK one, even with the fee hike here??

Wouldn't you have to pay fees/accommodation/living expenses/flights all out of own expenses upfront? Guessing in region of £25,000 per year???

Can anyone shed light on actual costs??

My son thought about applying to a US Uni but we and he decided in the end that he wouldn't enjoy being quite so far from family. He has just started at Uni 300 miles from here which is far enough.

Make sure they are mature enough to be so distant, unless you have family in USA of course.

Actually thelastresort, tuition and board alone is £31,000 a year at universities like Harvard. For four years.

I'd read about the different schools (very different environments at the different unis you have listed). A good place to start is US News and World Report (available on line).

Familiarize your son with the SAT - there are books available. Not a difficult exam at all and there are tricks to the exam, however very different to exams taken here (multiple choice) and so it would be good to do a couple practice tests.

Schools such as Harvard have summer sessions which are open to academically able High Schoolers, and is a good way for your son to get a good feel for the school and also get a taster of campus life. Not sure though if it would be possible with the UK school schedule as schools in the US have a much longer summer break (June to September). Would be worth looking into.

I agree with Checkmate for most things. At schools such as Harvard (Ivy League, Seven Sisters, MIT, CalTech, Stanford, top Liberal Arts Colleges), academics must be at a very high standard, but this is not enough. They are also looking for a varied extracurricular list with demonstrated real achievement. These school will make some exceptions to the all A academic record for students who have achieved outstanding things (overcoming great adversity, publishing books) and like quirky and unique extracurriculars (eg, being world champion in Twister).

Thank you. I am grateful to you all for your insights. The acceptance rate at Ivy League is very low. Does anyone have any information about drop out rates , especially for European students?

If anyone has attended or visited any of the colleges, especially Liberal Arts Colleges, doyou you have any comments about the atmosphere and social environment?

Yes, last resort, it is expensive and a full breakdown of costs can be found on websites.

Having had a wonderful time accompanying my husband on a Fulbright Scholarship almost 20 years ago at Georgetown, we feel the experience is worth considering if posssible, though acceptance is by no means certain. The authorities in Washington and at Georgetown were fantastic and very generous with their support and went out of their way to give me access to people and places which allowed me to continue my own research which I was just completing and to develop professionally and we consider it a real privilege to have been given the opportunity.

I am of course very worried that she is young to be far away and am concerned at how she will cope but she has grown up in countries other than the UK so feel she might be all right. Would be grateful for any experiences people have about settling. She does have expat grandparents in the US but a long way away from where we are thinking and they are elderly. She is a bit of a magpie and enjoys several subjects and we feel the Liberal Arts courses and the quality of instruction would be worth the cost, were she fortunate enough to be admitted. I wish, along with Checkmate, that more were available here.

Thanks again for the time you have taken to answer my questions.

marking place

jem:

here is the link to the US New and World Report. Drop out rates would be reflected in the retention rate which used to be listed in this report (and might be in the paid version) but is not available on-line. Give a call to the specific admissions offices and they would be happy to give you that info.

However, this information is reflected in the USN&WR rankings, so the retention rate is most likely very high.

I attended a Top 5 Liberal Arts College and a Top 5 University for medical school and can tell you that the atmosphere at each university/college is very different. Which university/college in particular are you interested in knowing about?

I agree that there are great strengths to having a liberal arts education, and am aiming for the same for my DC. Additionally, the support at school and as an alumni of any of these institutions is fantastic, as well as the network of alumni themselves.

I wouldn't be worried about the distance. The East Cost of the US is only a 5-8 hour plane ride away, similar to the distance between the 2 coasts of the US, and students travel these distances regularly to go to uni, so she wouldn't be alone. She would also be a year older than the typical American freshman, so I wouldn't be worried about age. In fact, she will probably be much more mature than the typical American freshman. There are a myriad of clubs at any of the University, including a foreign student one (as well as special interst and social ones) so will quickly find a niche. In terms of cost, most of the top universities have a need-blind admission which means that they will admit without looking at ability to pay. Once you are admitted, the financial aid office will work with you to get the funding to pay (either through loans or grants).

Have you considered looking at Universities in the UK with exchange programs with the USA. Under this scheme UK student pays UK fees even for the year in the USA. I spent time at Virginia Tech - Virginia Maryland regional College of Vet med, some of my friends went to MIT, Harvard, Yale, Penn State, Cornell, UCB, UCD, Texas A and M to name a few. We are all University of London graduates.

About costs - if you are on a low or middle income and your child gets a place at Harvard (or probably any other Ivy League) it is far cheaper for you. I left with no student debt, and having not cost my parents a penny; I got part time jobs to pay spending money and plane fares home. I got tuition, full board and lodging, all virtually free. If I had taken the place at Cambridge, I would have left with significant debt.

Harvard have just rejigged their financial support, to make it more possible for middle-incomes to be able to afford it. Its a sliding scale now.
But if you're a high earner then it will be expensive for your child to attend there.

jem44 - is it worth considering Georgetown? Many US schools love keeping the family link and will give preferential places to their alumni's DC (assuming all other criteria are met).

I can't emphasise the extra-curric side enough. A foreign student will get cut a bit of slack on that side, btw, because Ivy League likes the splash of variety that foreign students bring... but the earlier comment about taking extra-curric to the highest level is not an exageration. I wanted to attend Stanford (cue hollow laughter). I went to Cal Berkeley instead, am not truly Stanford material at all!

I am American (living in UK) and I can't conceive of my DC attending any of the Ivy League Unis -- not because they aren't bright enough academically but because of the extra-curric things they'd have to achieve, too. But good luck, obviously some people truly are that calibre.

I could look at Georgetown - we were just a bit unsure of such a big city for a young girl. We are not thinking she must go to America - from a personal perspective as her Mum I have reservations about such a separation - but that it might be great for her.

Checkmate Did your experience as a Foreign student change your outlook on life immensely and was it all for the better?

SofaQueen, Thanks for the link. I was wondering about Brown or Dartmouth, if you know anything about them or have any recommendations. She could possibly have a shot at Harvard. We were thinking that 3 applications would be sufficient since there might be extra to do for each, but 4 might be all right too? Her extra curricular experiences are varied and decent and show commitment and spark and her people skills appear to be pretty remarkable for someone her age but I wouldn't say her extra curricular achievement is stellar. Still, nothing ventured...

I am so pleased to have received such well informed advice. Thanks again.