Band 4 Trainee PWP v Trainee EMHP

[Aria20]

Does anyone have experience of either of these band 4 roles please?

I am in my final year of a psychology degree and looking at jobs and considering either of the above roles - both include training placement for a post grad diploma.

I like the sound of the EMHP as working with young people is what I had in mind when doing the degree, BUT it's a relatively new job compared with PWP and there seem to be less clear examples of progression and opportunities.

Also the PWP once fully trained can work remotely or for private not just NHS so there is more potential for flexibility in the future once qualified.

Just looking for anyone with experience of either to share the positives/negatives, the daily work expected etc. Thanks!

Bump anyone?

I'm an EMHP and I love it. No experience of the PWP role. The emhp qual and role is now becoming accredited which may help with progression.

Thank you for the reply. How did you get into the role? Did you have previous experience in a similar field? I hear the jobs receive a huge number of applicants so it is hard to even get an interview.

I'm an EMHP. There has been a lot of talk about no progression and lots of people using the role as a 'stepping stone' to then apply for ed psychology or clinical work. However they have now introduced accreditation and a senior version of the role.
I personally really enjoy the role and woemjnf with YP and parents and am happy to stay doing this. It's a very good mix of 1:1 work and whole class workshops and small groups.
Anecdotally I've heard PWPs have a much higher case load expectation!
I work in a great trust with a fantastic supervisor and team- I've heard this can be the key in enjoying this role as much as I do!

Thanks for this. How many schools do you work with and what is the work like in school holidays?

I was a teacher then did an MSc in mental health, I didn't need to but it helped.

The role although has the same training ranges vastly in how it works between mhst. I remember on our course everyone had a very different experience during service time as some had joined existing teams or like me, were a brand new team. Some focused on whole school approach, others groups and 1-1 work.

Number of schools depends on number of students in them I think - e.g. If your schools have a large number of students you'll have less schools in your MHST.
Holidays varies according to service.
General rule appears to be you are encouraged to take your own holiday in school holiday time.
You can offer to continue sessions virtually or in shared spaces like children's centres or clinics if available.
Otherwise holidays are a lot of planning workshops and resources etc

I know this thread is nearly a month old but I have been invited for interview for Trainee EMHP and part of the process is a set role play- did anyone else have to do this and what did it involve? It’s my worst nightmare tbh even though I know I am capable of the job itself grrr

@houseshouses and @musicinspring1 may I ask how your contract works, once you're qualified? Is there a set number of years you have to work in specific types of jobs (or just simply for the NHS..?) to kind of 'pay off' your training year?

Most people were given contracts after training year but some weren't and had to either reapply for their roles on a permanent contract or they had to move services who were in need of qualified EMHP's. I'm not aware of a need to pay back the training year, but that's not to say some services may have this rule. I do know you can't apply for another funded post for 2 years after completion of the emhp qualification.

Same as @HBGKC - I wasnt aware of 'owing ' years or anything but I think more trusts may be introducing this- especially with higher level training. And yes , Sam's rule that you cant apply for higher level funded training (e.g. CBT) until 2 years service of CWP/ EMHP.
Does that help?!

Same rule not Sam's!!!

Ok, thanks both. The website of one of the providers says "“ Upon completion of the training, trainees will remain employed within their service and proceed to the NHS Band 5 pay scale.”.. so I was wondering how much scope for movement & progression there was (I quite like the idea of ending up as a school counsellor, and this seemed a good potential route to a relevant qualification).

@houseshouses @musicinspring1 what are your core "working hours"? As in what hours are you in school? Then where do you go after? A base office or home to write up reports/do your planning etc?

How intense is the trainee year attending the course and working?

My hours are 9-5. Some EMHP's have set schools that they are based in. I don't. I go from school to school and when I complete my work in one school. I either go to the next appointment or home to complete admin. We don't have a base but again this is totally service dependent. Some may want their team in the office each day others are happy with hybrid working.

Also contracts tend to be all year round and not term time.

@Aria20
Days can be quite varied depending on if there are workshops/ lessons / meetings booked in.
A 'typical' secondary school day might be seeing 4 students and I can choose which 4 lessons out of 5 I book those in. Eg if I have a student for lesson 1 that often starts at 8:45 so I might work 8:30 - 4:30 that day instead of 9-5.
We have a base office but can choose to write up notes and planning there or at home. I often choose home unless I want to print or meet colleagues for planning in person.
I personally found the training year manageable but talking to others on the course I feel in hindsight that's because I had an excellent , experienced supervisor who had supervised trainees before and knew the course expectations very well. They made sure we had workshops / groups and cases booked in well advance for course requirements and assignments. Hardest thing for me was remembering how to write an essay according to proper structure and referencing as it had been while since my undergraduate course but my uni were good at giving clear guidance with that.

Thank you both it's really helpful and interesting to hear how it works in practice!

I've just finished my degree so essays and report writing are still very fresh for me!

That will definitely help! One thing I did find difficult though having gone to this role straight from my MSc was that the writing expected was very different in style. It asked for a lot of reflection on practise. Video recording your sessions to meet certain requirements and then submitting the videos and reflections on that. If you are used to that style then that's amazing, I definitely wasn't and I found it tricky.

I missed your post so sorry. How did you get on? I didn't have to complete a role play, think it's fairly recently that they have introduced this to most mhsts.

@houseshouses argh not had to video anything before no.... but tons of being reflective which I find tedious having to write about lol.

I don't think I will have to do a role play in an interview as the man on the phone said it's a teams interview.... and he didn't mention any role play (I hope not!) but perhaps that's for a second interview if required if you make it through the teams one?!

@FuckKnowsMate sorry I didn't reply either but my interview was during Covid and I think quite different to expectations now so I didn't think I would be much help!

@houseshouses in the school holidays if you are still 9-5 what are you doing and from where? I'm just thinking of childcare options... my interview is Thursday and I am trying to get my head around it all. When I asked over the phone they said on exam results days you are in the schools to offer support but other than that it was quiet and mainly getting up to date with paperwork with maybe an odd meeting in a children's centre/Camhs... are they just trying to make it sound simpler than it is in practice?!

May I ask how you got on, @Aria20?

@HBGKC Thanks for your help and advice - I didn't get the job, I was clearly too nervous during the interview which was on teams with people from the nhs trust and also the university - it was my first interview in many years and a different industry despite having the qualifications and many years working with children and knowing I could do the job well.

The university woman has basically put me off anyway while my DD is still young as the trainee year in particular sounded extremely full on as you don't get allocated time off to do all the assignments and self study so I'd be doing that evenings and weekends on top of 37 hours a week and 3 kids (2 with SEN), a dog and usual house stuff to keep up with. I just don't feel it's manageable for me at the moment - the university days were 1.5 hour commute each way too and no longer remote so I'd be tight for after school club if traffic delays!

Oh I'm so sorry you didn't get it. The training year is full on and I did find the juggle difficult with 3 children all under 8 at the time and my uni was remote so I totally get where you are coming from. I wouldn't give up on it forever if it's a role you would like to do. The training year is manageable with children but you do need to be prepared to do your uni work on an evening/weekend. Is there a course provider that is nearer to you to make the travel more manageable? In my area the January intake is at a different university to the September intake.