Can’t afford to divorce? What should we do?

[lking12]

Hi all, after looking at our finances (though I knew anyway) even running one household our remaining income is only about £400 a month. If I stopped a saving scheme and my pension contributions this would go up to £800 a month. This doesn’t seem enough to divorce and run two separate households as we live in the South East.
I can’t work out the logistics of divorcing!?!

My husband works from home and does the school run whilst I commute into work. The only way I can see us divorcing is if he moves back with his parents an hour away, I put the kids into childcare in the morning which will cost me £100 a week (or slightly less depending which days I go into the office) and have them in the week… And then he has the kids each weekend?
Otherwise is there some magical way we can afford to divorce? Ideally I don’t want to disrupt the kids schools and my job.

Just on this… I don’t assume he’s not going to get any of the savings/equity. I did the benefit calculator but said I’m not sure if he’ll actually get it if half the savings go to him as then he’d have at least £6k in the bank…..TBH I dont really mind if he gets half of it, half the house or use of the house until the kids are 18. If it’s the least disruptive to them anyway.
He does the morning school run because he starts work at 10. I then finish work early and do the childminder pick ups and dinner . So…. It’s pretty even in the day except he is working from home so probably could do the evening too if the kids stayed with the childminder longer. Not sure he’d want to though which is a separate issue.

The best place I think might be cheaper and has some ties for me is the north west which is a possibility and the schools are good, but his family are all in Kent and so I am not sure if he would move as well. Also not sure if I can take the kids that far away from him?

I personally think his parents would love to have him back at weekends, they dote on him entirely. I don’t think his parents would want the kids there each weekend. So best thing might be when one of us not looking after kids I go to my rented room and he goes to his parents and whoever is looking after the kids stays in the house?!

I’m definitely a planner… it’s the foundation of my job😂 but of course the first thing might be to understand from him a bit more about the logistics, we have talked about separating before.

I would also consider completely relocating too to a cheaper area if both of your jobs permit. You have £230k equity - you could both buy modest properties up North or in the Midlands for around £150 - £180k each (small mortgage would be needed but you're both working). A big upheaval but you'd both then be free and still have security.

I would but I don’t think he’d go as all his family are in Kent?!
And if I took the kids to the north west and he stayed in Kent it would be putting a big distance between them. I think his parents might suggest it’s preferable they help out. We thought about moving before so I could be closer to family and when I chatted about it his mum broke down crying!

He's not going to buy you anything for Mother's Day if you divorce either. If that's your priority you're not going to win.

If there's no acrimony at the moment can you not sit it out for a few more years? The baby years are hard, you might find more common ground again.

Could you release enough equity for a deposit on a second property?

It seems like you are trying to retain 50/50 when the father is the primary carer. It would be unfair to uproot the children in that manner.

You have £230k equity, £12k in savings, plus pension pot. That is likely to be split 60/40 in your STBex favour because he is the primary carer. It's likely the house will be ordered to be sold as neither of you can afford to buy the other out. This means you will have a deposit of around £97k to put down on another flat.

Unless you're earning £100k plus, him getting spousal maintenance is unlikely.

He will not be able to claim UC with the capital from the financial order, however he (or you if you meet the criteria!) could put the capital down on a shared ownership property, and he can claim universal credit for the housing element.

Nesting will only work if you both agree not to apply for a financial order, which I don't think is realistic if you need income to rent another property and you have a mortgage on your existing property.

There are two bed flats available in places like Northfleet, Ashford etc for £150k+ in Kent. Not ideal with 3 kids but you'd manage. As you're the higher earner, you might be able to take on a bigger mortgage to buy a small house.

www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/141673550

In the absence of abuse or neglect, the priority in divorce should be keeping both parents close and involved in the children’s day to day lives.

If my spouse came to me with a plan that had me moving to a different city as part of a divorce, it would instantly become acrimonious. If my spouse came to me with a plan to move away with the children, I would be in court getting an order to prevent the children’s departure.

children don’t need the same house or the same school, they need their parents. You don’t have to stay married, but they deserve both of you in close proximity.

Okay thanks. Why would he be the primary carer and would he have to be? Could he refuse to be?
Is there a good website where you can see practical examples of divorce?

He does the morning but I effectively do the evening until he finishes work, so although we don’t need childcare in the morning because he starts late why does that make him default primary carer?

The issue with moving is neither of us would get much for our money (at which point pretty sure he’d just move back with his parents when I don’t have an option like that without moving away!!). Plus my eldest would have to move school. All the good ones are oversubscribed so she’d end up somewhere rubbish. Sounds like it means staying married for the sake of it or he pushes for a divorce instead/anyway.

If we agree to hold on to the house for a few years at least until childcare gets cheaper can we do that then apply for a financial order when one of us has had enough and wants to sell?

He’s pretty practical but has an aversion to any sort of planning himself so he’d probably just go along with whatever I suggest!

as an aside it’s a very different experience being married and feeling single than actually being single. It’s the being ignored by the person that’s supposed to care and connect with you that makes it hard. At least being single none of that would be a disappointment!

You don't have to live jn London. Lots of cheaper places where you could move to and commute. The share of equity you have would allow this.

@lking12 The reason people are saying that he is the primary carer is because you said he does the school runs and you commute. You didn't say that you do half of them too. It sounded like you are out of the house for a much of the day whilst he works and looks after the kids before/after school.

"Theres no particular issue he’s just very insular and unfortunately it bothers me, we’ve been back and forth a few times about seperating and had counselling before with Relate but it was useless. We’d already tried almost everything they said, think her final advice was stop breastfeeding and move the baby out of the room!!! He was the same when we were dating but we had more time and energy to make an effort now we just don’t or basically have lost interest to bother."

You have 3 young kids. Its hard work and its not going to be romantic and idyllic. There must have ben some reason why you got together in the first place? Who is driving the split?

Or maybe you both need to approach this differently and agree to continue to live together in the same house and co-parent, but have separate rooms. Spend time as a family and spend time apart.

Surely you can be grown up enough to make it work?

Seriously? Is that all? Get a grip OP, treat each other nicely and stop expecting hearts and flowers.

I don't actually think you should lower your expentations but I do think there is room for you both to work on the issues to avoid a divorce. I think you should definitely expect to get hearts and flowers every now and then and you should expect that he values you and shows you that. At the moment you are both too far apart for that to feel natural and that's what you have to work on. Don't start with the hearts and flowers but start with figuring out how the both of you would like the relationship to look and then work towards realising that, the hearts and flowers will follow.

Ahhh see now you've explained that, no, he is not the primary carer. You didn't mention you do evening childcare before, it seems like it's evenly split so 50/50 would make sense.

I'm a McKenzie friend so gave a practical example of divorce.

All of your property, pension and any assets worth over £500 inc cars go into a pot.

The value of that pot is split 50/50 as a starting point.

That might change depending on child arrangements and housing needs, as well as mortgage raising capacity. But it's unusual for 1 party to get more than 65%.

Sometimes pensions are kept in lieu of capital, others there's a pension sharing order.

Yes you can delay the financial settlement, but if you are the higher earner and keep accruing pension it will cost you more in the long run.

If your jobs are based in the SE then looking at more affordable parts of the Home Counties is a better option than the NW. As a pp points out Kent, is an option for the family as it has good transport links.

But you need to stop throwing out solutions. This isn’t even good planning. You both need to discuss separation and the problems that will arise when you do and what are the absolute things you need to find a solution to. Then look at options that will work for you.

Living with his parents isn’t a solution. No matter how much they dote on him. At some point new partners will be a reality. He will want his own place that he shares with his children. Just like you do. The children will want to be able to put down roots and not spend hours travelling around the country.

If you truly don’t think he’ll ever be the husband you need him to be then if you’re going to separate then it’s far easier to do it now, when your children are very young. Right now you could each manage with a two-bedroom flat for a few years, can pick a cheaper area without worrying about secondary school catchments, very few primary schools are truly rubbish in the sense of having to worry about the issues which affect secondary age children in deprived areas, they can be moved from KS1 primary school and nursery with far less upheaval than when they’re all older and one is approaching or in secondary school. You’d each have a share of equity which would afford you to buy something adequate outside of but commutable to London for work, if that’s what you want or need.

No, you won’t both have the same standard of living as you do now. But you will both have the opportunity to improve your lives, even if it means an initial difficult couple of years. Your finances will change, your nursery fees will disappear, you’ll likely both meet somebody new eventually. The hardest part is the worrying about it all. Once you’ve ripped the plaster off and that bit is over with, it really does become a weight lifted and easier to deal with.

I mean no, it’s obviously not all. We’ve previously had counselling for a myriad of issues. This was just when there was truly a bit of a sea change.
theres no point in going into detail mumsnet only turns into trolling if you do and I really can’t be bothered because as I say think it’s inevitable.

Preferably we’d keep the house as when the childcare costs go down I might be able to afford the mortgage on my own and until that point it’d be nice to keep paying into the asset, but we’ll have a chat and see!

If you think it’s inevitable then I think you just have to do it. Not easy though. Good luck with it.

You'll still need to buy him out of his share of the house though ? Or is he expected to leave with nothing?

If you know it’s inevitable then delaying it is just kicking the can down the road. There are hundreds of threads all over MN from miserable women who’ve known it was over for years but still think they can’t leave “because eldest off to secondary next year / eldest doing GCSEs next year and don’t want their performance affected by their parents breaking up / younger DC choosing GCSE subjects the year after that / A Levels soon etc etc.”

And all the while, your children are getting older and more intuitive and noticing how you and OH treat each other, and that it isn’t often with love and care and respect.
I think quite a lot of people are resistant to hearing it, but what we learn in childhood from the template of our parents’ relationship, the way they treat each other, and the sort of behaviour they think is acceptable to put up with from a partner, informs so much of our own future relationships and the partners we stay with or leave.

You might be able to afford the mortgage as it is now, but can you afford to buy him out? Because you'd need to do that to keep the house unless his pension part is worth half of the assets and he agrees to keep that in lieu of capital.

Is there any way you can create extra space in your own home - attic or spare room, so you each have your own bedroom. Stay living under one roof with him as the caregiver and you the breadwinner, and create a practical solution to childrearing, but agree to be accepting and respectful of each other dating other people. It's financially less stressful and far less stress for the children. You got on once, well enough to have children together, so surely you can again, until they are old enough for him to go out and earn enough to live independently.