Doctor reccomending DNR

[B0yMama2]

I was in hospital all day with my 85 year old grandad after he had an unresponsive episode, my mother is next of kin and has power of eternity but she is out the country. My grandad has dementia but understands things going on arround him.
The doctor infornt of my grandad questioned why there's not a DNR on his medical notes and strongly advised me to tell my mum to put DNR on his medical notes. My mother said when he has no life meaning she will but at the moment he enjoys life, drinks, eats, walks with no issues and goes to the toilet with little assistance. When he can't feed himself, communicate or do anything for himself then that is when she said she will put a DNR in place. I'm just upset that he discussed to not save my grandads life infront of him, luckily I shut him down qwickly before my grandad caught on with the words it is my mother's choice.
I was also shocked at the amount of nurses I had to remind he has dementia and isant going to know when his birthday is or what his address is.

Your mum needs to sit down with the medical team and discuss what a DNAR would mean to your granddad. Because he has a reasonable quality of life when well does not mean that brutal CPR is appropriate and is likely to be traumatising and fruitless.
I suspect the doctor wanted you to call your mum even though she was away, as they did not want to be put in a position where them carrying out CPR would be expected but would absolutely not be in your granddads best interests.

@OMGitsnotgood thank you for your kind words - and yes, this has to be brought out into the open and talked about. My 93 year old mum, now diagnosed with dementia, brought up in a different world, is horrified when I try to open a conversation about hers and my wishes for the end of our lives. “Let’s not have this morbid discussion “. Yet I know how very unhappy she would be to be kept alive or resuscitated to “live” in misery.

I've successfully resuscitated cardiac patients who have been discharged and been able to lead full active lives.

Unfortunately, I've also been called to attempt to resuscitate many hundreds people where despite our best efforts, the patient died. Many of these were frail, elderly people who deserved better. Who should have been allowed to die gently and with dignity, with people who they loved accompanying them.

Once my health declines to the point where resuscitation would be futile. I don't want anyone trying. And I will come back and haunt anyone who does.

OP I'm very sorry about your grandparent. To explain, The decision needs to be taken by medics In discussion with the patient and their family, so it was appropriate to ask you if your DM wasn't available. It's a hard decision, but so important that you act in your Grandparent's best interests. Then you can be proud that you had the courage and compassion to do so.

I’m guessing the decision is never easy but I am really pissed that a care home worker put a DNR on a form for my dh when he said that was not what he wanted. Fortunately I do have PoA for such matters, but I was not impressed.

This thread isn't about you or a situation that is in any way comparable to yours.

Anyone is free to make comments on any thread. Who makes you the thread police???

Wierd, kind of sounds like you are trying to police my comment to you

If anyone is allowed to make any comments on the thread, then my comment is allowed and stands

Sorry, if I’ve offended anyone with my previous posts

Basically the only criteria for resuscitation is being dead. In most cases a DNR is saying ‘this person has had a peaceful death, we don’t want to try to reverse because it isn’t dignified for them and they probably won’t be any better off if we do bring them back’. Having been at many resuscitations I would not want one for myself or anyone I know except the very young and fit.

DNR is not about stopping any other treatment while the person is living.

Care home workers don't sign DNARs it's signed and authorised by medical staff Registrar and Consultant level

An appropriately trained health care professional can have discussions about advance care planning and resuscitation and complete the necessary documentation. I’m a nurse and do them all the time. Ideally it should be the professional who knows the person best so can be a GP, district nurse etc.

@greenbeansnspinach
Bless you no please don't be sorry there's no need, I'm actually more sad and shocked you and your nan had to go through this it's not right.
I'm going to have a word with my mother and ask if she knows anything about this I'm sure she's unaware and she'll be horrified.
Sorry for your loss 💐

My mother signed a DNR with the GP over ten years before we needed it. But thank goodness she did. She had been taken to hospital on the Friday by ambulance but they sent her home. When she had a stroke on the following Wednesday we knew the end was near and because of the DNR we were able to refuse to have her taken back to hospital. We nursed her at home and she died peacefully a few days later with myself and my daughter with her. All the family had been able to visit her. The ambulance crew told us that everyone should have their DNR notice pinned up in their kitchen.

My mum is in the later stages of dementia and has had a bad chest infection before Christmas and treated with antibiotics and has started to get UTI’s . The other day she was in an unbearable amount of pain going to the toilet so has been put on more antibiotics. I didn’t question it and wonder what you would suggest in this situation? Strong painkillers ?
I think if my heart stops or mums I would not want CPR . I know an elderly man who had CPR after he arrested at a gym but not long after he got terminal cancer. I think we have to let people go when it is their time.

I'm sorry you're in this difficult situation. Is your mum still at home? I'd talk to her doctor about it.
Painkillers would certainly help. So would increasing her fluid intake, if you can persuade her.

No she is in a home. I try and go in every day for an hour and make sure she drinks while I am there . They say they get fluids into her but she needs constant reminders to drink and as far as I can see drinks are often just left on the side untouched.

That may be why she gets infections.

Can you speak to the doctor who is responsible for your mum's care?

I could try but I already questioned whether she had drank the day she had the pain and the carer said there was lots of blood in her urine. They have some new inexperienced staff there too and although I was assured by a senior I don’t really feel reassured that she is getting the necessary fluids.

I can only do so much. I already feel I am trying to control what happens to her too much and I have to try and trust them to do their jobs properly.

OP, I imagine the doctor was thinking of your grandad’s best interests.

A neighbour of ours, in his 80s, was resuscitated after a 2nd heart attack. He told me later that the after effects* were so painful, he wished they’d just let him die.
He did die just a few months later anyway.

After hearing that, I made sure that there was a DNR on my mother’s notes - she was over 90 with dementia. I certainly did not want her to have to suffer like that.
*Presumably cracked or broken ribs.

A DNR isn’t really about current quality of life, it’s irrelevant - it’s much more about the likelihood of successful CPR, and what the quality of life would be after prolonged resuscitation, likely hypoxic brain injury, and a long stay in intensive care.

I wonder if any of you could answer a question regarding my Dads death. Sorry if I sound a bit ignorant .
He had been poorly for a while and had taken to his bed for weeks . He collapsed off the bed and an ambulance was called. I spent all day with him at hospital before he was admitted to intensive care
The next day we went to visit. We had trouble getting through the doors and someone came out to us to explain he had had a heart attack and was on a ventilator. I can’t remember if they said at the time ( 10 years ago) that he had a cardiac arrest but presume he must have done as they wanted his permission to turn the ventilator off they must have resuscitated him? Just hate to think of him suffering and being bought back only to be let go of again .