Separated dad vs Dad & Mother together

[Nealkhan]

Hi All,
Me and my wife spilt up nearly two years ago. We were together for nearly 9 years and have two kids girl aged 8 and boy aged 4. I've always been a hands on that. My own father was absent in my life and I vowed to myself that I would never do that to my kids.

The kids now live with their mother and she has told me she has met someone and most likely she will remarry in 2021. I already find the thought of not seeing my kids every day difficult ( I get them every other weekend and Friday inbetween) and I want the same relationship with them as if I would see them everyday.

I guess my question is, how does one cope with your ex moving on and that person potentially living with your kids and seeing them more then their actual dads ?

My DP massively struggled with this, it's impossible for him to have 50/50 too. He really worried that he would lose his bond and his son would think of step dad as his dad more than him.
In reality his son adores him and they enjoy their time together, there is absolutely no questioning who his son sees and loves as his dad, they are really close. He is getting that bit older so they FaceTime all the time etc.
It must be so difficult for you but you sound like a lovely dad and I'm sure it'll work out in the end

Could you have them for dinner 1 night a week as well, either flexibly around your shifts depending on mum/grandparent arrangements? When one of my colleagues broke up with his ex we had an arrangement in our team he could only on the rota for an early on a Wednesday, then he picked his kids up from school,took them to his house for dinner, did homework with them, just a normal evening and then dropped them back off with his ex at 7.

Ask yourself what their mum would do if both her parents were permanently unavailable and she were a doctor with long shifts. Maybe she'd have them fostered and visit them a couple of times a week?

FFS. Makes me so angry, it really is not rocket science. If you want them more, you can have them more, you just have to make the sacrifices to do so - whether that's in terms of career, income (reduced hours) or, whoa, novel idea here but hear me out: paying for childcare

Or maybe move in with your parents as she has done. Do you think she'd rather be living with them than not? I doubt it tbh, as much as it benefits her to have them there to help with childcare, because it also puts a burden on her. So that's yet another sacrifice she's making.

On a slightly more constructive note, perhaps, much as I am not a fan of my ex, he is managing to work full time and have our son 3 nights a week, including mid-week. We actually split weekends so DS gets weekend time with each parent every week, and my ex has to be involved with school runs and the shitwork of managing uniforms and homework and so on rather than leaving it all to me, because that is part of being a parent. It works really well for everyone so far - DS and his father have a very close relationship.

Op I appreciate that you have a demanding job which makes it difficult to fit things like school runs in and probably medical apptmts, school plays etc but if you really want to be a big part of your children's life you need to be involved in their daily activities, don't just cram fun things into your weekends with them. That turns you into a Disney dad and creates high expectations going forward for your kids.
If it's so important to you then you will need to have to take steps to change your working life somehow. Cut your hours, change your hours, whatever or however you need to do it.
It's not on your ex wife to sort it or accommodate you. It's on you to be pro active and compromise if you need to.
Many parents have to do this for years, how do you think single parents cope?
By frantically juggling, compromising, lowering expectations and thinking outside of the box that's how.

Coronawireless makes some good suggestions. Appreciate that you are happy to leave them with ex and gps rather than childcare and fair enough but what else are you doing? but shifts open up opportunities as well. I used to work night shift, the guys would love getting home for breakfasts with the kids or being up for family dinner before going to work. On the roster times that allow I would see if you can go pick your kids up and take them to school or pick them up after school and do dinner before returning them. These are the basics I’ve seen dads do and that I’d expect of my dh if he did shift work.

Don’t push for more weekends, that would be really unfair. Do take half of holidays.

Don’t compare yourself to a single mum unless you are doing at least half the parenting and mental load, job or no job.

Shes unwilling to do 50/50 or even close to 60/40 hence me working the shifts I work. My original solicitor said the arrangement I have every other weekend and friday inbetween is good and not many people get that. In hindsight maybe I trust the solicitor to much and should of pushed her to agree more of a even spilt because now my ex is unwilling to budge

You dont need a solicitor, you can self represent in court and of course you will (eventually) be entitled to 50/50.

You just have to stop making excuses and do it.

Sorry but I agree with the general consensus that you are using work as an excuse. Set your priority, which is your kids, then find a way to fit work around them. This is what parents who want time with their kids do. Your work comes SECOND. Make it flex.

Have you spoken to your deanery/employer?

I'm sure that you're a chronic overachiever, but relationships are an enigma and sometimes they fail no matter how hard you work at them.

Your job and house are things that you now have to make secondary to your children. Medicine is an assured career so you definitely definitely have more flexibility than most. A truck driver with a hostile/aggressive employer and an unsure job market for example would be inflexible.

You might have to take a hit on your earnings, and consequently move to a different flat. These are the sacrifices single parents make all the time. I appreciate that may be a bitter pill. Especially if you had your life plan set out.

When you were married, your team of 2 people working together enabled you to work shifts and coordinate your family life around your career. That luxury is gone. Pp were not being mean to point out that reality.

But I can see that how the pp were antagonistic. It is hard for women, and it is hard for you too. Understand that this is usually a women's burden so their comments are coloured by that reality.

Get 50-50 sorted out, you can do it with some sacrifices and it will definitely be worth it.

Just seen your other post @Nealkhan

Good for you!

Glad work were supportive and i hope your ex wife agrees to the mediation and it goes well.

@Nealkhan it won’t impact your bond with them, kids are generally resilient and adapt well, as long as the contact is consistent and more than just fun days, also help with the boring stuff like homework, weekend school projects, the things that they have to do as part of their everyday life.

That is the stuff to bond with them, you could combine their school work with fun, history homework, maybe a trip to the Tower of London. Geography a trip up the Thames.

Thank you all. I understand that sacrifices need to be made and I'm.willing to do anything.

I've spoken to my ex but she is unwilling to change our current agreement. Shes said she wants to stick to it and doesnt want 50/50 or even 60/40. Looks like I will have to try medation

Mediation is a good idea and often brings people to the table and trust me the thought of the next step which is a court stating the kids access is a sobering thought for resident parent.

If both parents work full time you should be able to push for something pushing 50-50,however, given your comments is that realistic as in court you'd need to put something workable forward on child access (I fully understand your comments on childcare as I feel the same).

On the other point, which perhaps not surprisingly has been overlooked by the judgmental on this thread, is yeah its a bit crap knowing another man sees your kids more than you. The important thing is to maintain your relationship with your kids and not let it cloud your judgment. My exs partner sees the kids more than I do (aside from my eldest). I think he sees my kids more than his own (seems odd to me but just part of the course apparently reading various mumsnet threads and rarely commented on).
He has to put up with my exs irrational behaviour and try to anchor her, I pity him really and he isnt really discussed in our house.

I've lived - and am living - this exact situation, so feel I should chip in. Apologies, as there's a lot to cover, so this might be a long post! :)

First up, the split. I, myself, would love to do 50:50 but so far have achieved 60:40 which I've gradually inched to 55:45. I sympathise with the working mums who've posted and only wish they'd been my ex! The truth is though, for every one of them there's another mum who fervently believes that anything other than "the normal arrangement" (as it was presented to me - that being the same as the OP's) is unhealthy and that the child should be settled with the primary caregiver - ie. the mother. I've seen this posted time and time again on the parenting forums here - indeed I've posted in more than a couple to prove co-parenting doesn't have to be a bad thing! Equally, I've seen dads being lambasted by posters for demanding access to their kids and then leaving them in childcare - its seen as neglectful when they could be with mum. More often than not, such requests for more access are seen as ways of reducing - or even negating - CMS payments too.

So, as a would-be co-parenting dad, you're often in a no-win situation regarding popular opinion. For every one of you slating him for not doing more, there will be many others who would slate him for doing more. Of course, the truth is you shouldn't give a stuff about that - only about what you believe is right for the kids - but there's a real pressure exerted on dads to put the kids' supposed need for stability ahead of their own perceived "selfish" need to see them more often.

I had to argue for access above the "normal arrangement" myself. As it was, my ex sees herself as a very progressive person, so in the end I was able to leverage the fact that it was the progressive thing to do, so that she couldn't argue against it without her appearing to be conservative, so she had to - grudgingly - accept. She was also only in part-time work, whilst I'm full-time. This is her choice - before we split, I offered to reduce my working days so she could look for something more full-time, but she refused.

That said, there's possibly ways to grab an inch here and a yard there. OP: I'd suggest you stop looking it as an either/or between what you have now and 50:50 if your ex is that much opposed. Lay on the importance of you having "quality time" with them - is there an after-school club you could agree to take them to mid-week? Or could you agree to have them over for tea a couple of nights? If school pick-ups are a problem, could another parent help on that score and you pick them up from their's later? A lot of schools do an after-school club exactly for parents who can only do pick ups after work too.

If you're situation is anything like mine, then if all goes well and the kids respond favourably (remember to check how they feel things are going - I was very cautious about this, and they ended arguing for spending longer with me to their mum!) then you can present the logic of them staying overnight after they've been to a club, had tea, whatever. By putting the kids need for quality time with you first in this manner, you may find yourself accumulating closer to a 50:50 split organically. You do have to be creative though. I ended up pouring over homemade calendars and spreadsheets, trying all manner of comobinations to make it work. I got there though.

Good luck! :)

Also, to answer your original question of how to deal with the new step-dad... I'm not going to lie, it's hard, however this is soemthing that's only happened in the last year so I'm still adapting myself. The new man was my ex's affair partner which makes it a bit more of a bitter pill to swallow, admittedly, and he has kids of his own which don't stay overnight. So I'm horribly aware that not only does he see more of my kids than me, but also more of my kids than he does his own.

On the plus side - my kids get on with him. I know that sounds odd, but I realise it means they're still in a supportive environment when their not with me. In fact, DD1 has, historically, had a personality clash with his mum and when we split she had to put up with a lot of bad behaviour on his part. But he now has an ally in his new step-dad. His behaviour's calmed down immensely since he moved in which, I think in part, is because he feels he's got someone "on his side" and who understands him in his mum's house. And as galling as that might sound for me, I do appreciate it.

On the negative side, I have to cope with a constant reminders that I'm a bit like the chick that the cuckoo kicked out of the nest. The worst part is the fact that both step-dad and dad evidently occupy a similar niche in their brains - so when they come round, I always get accidentally called the ex-OM's name for the first 24 hours. DS2 even mistakenly referred to my ex and her partner as "Mum and Dad". I'm not going to lie - it often feels like I'm stuck in some particularly perverse nightmare. But you just have to get on with it and realise it isn't personal. It's just a typo on their tongue. And, for all that, there's always moments - just when you least expect it - when DS1 will tell me sleepily, when I've put him to bed, how he feels "safe" with me or DS2 gives me an extra birthday present of "five hugs" - that remind me I will always be their dad and they love me just as much.

OP yes, this place is very quick on the beat-up; why I avoided it until my offspring were 16 and 12 frankly. I have chosen to skip the beat ups and only respond if I can positively, so my tongue is half chewed off!

The fact that you are actually choosing to be engaged and making the effort to be present - a real effort, not lip service - will be noted by your children. You clearly have enough respect for them at this young age not to blag the 'interest' and make lame excuses will be noted by them (and their friends believe it or not!). Parenting is sacrificial: self interest dies for the greater good, and that comes in many expressions - even giving up the 'ideal' 50/50, which is debatable!

My children know that my Ex made a different choice to you, and now don't have the closeness I had sought for them, and when it suits them not to see him, I now allow that choice (at 14 I stopped pressing him).
Despite DexH having every opportunity to arrange his work life 80% of the time and choose any week day, so long as it was regular and consistent (I bench marked a guide of 70% as being consistent enough to have value and not be harmful for the mental health as we all have to deal with disappointment sometimes) the frequency weekly, twice weekly, alternate weeks complete flexibility and proximity not an issue as school equidistant, and given he could arrange his golf diary and make 100% tee-times, and Fridays - members days - around his work schedule, I failed miserably to secure face-time with him.

At the age of 5 my son unfortunately, learned the reality of someone choosing 'self 'consistently over him (and his younger sister). This continued and for 14 months, and only 9 mid-week visits coming to fruition, dealing with the consistent cancellations, I admitted defeat.
When my lawyer cautioned me that his lawyer had made it clear that if I persisted in texting on a Monday to find out what day that week worked best for him and a reminder on Wednesday, I would be charged with harassment. So, I ceased with the vain hope of mid week contact. I had long given up the idea of a consistent day, and would take any day he would offer contact for the sake of my son, then almost 7 and DD 3.

My ex worked for himself, had a good team around him and he found the time for golf, so one might think he could have carved out time for the children he apparently desperately wanted (3 unsuccessful rounds of IVF with W2. I'm W3, no overlap with w2). Weekend contact at this stage was either a saturday or sunday every week and was at best, 3 out of 5 weekends, and occasionally 3 weeks in a row no show. (he left when DD was 5 months old and son barely 4, hence weekly contact, not fortnightly).

So,you can't change your hours, you work in a highly scheduled profession, with little scope for flexibility. Legitimate reasons. Your children will understand these constraints and have less of a difficult time reconciling that reality than a choice of not being able to be as present as you would like, than mine have where a little white ball had greater value. Playing off +2 isn't an excuse, and as a HC 9, I get the addiction-ish.

I think you are right to see the value in your children having time with invested GP's and Mummy over the ideology of 50/50 and child minder... They will thank you for that, I assure you. Any mother worth her salt would ask a Judge to query if this was in the children's best interest. When my ex wanted our 8month old daughter to spend overnights with him, rather than drive her the arduous 3 mile journey on Saturday at 4,5 or 6pm, (located 27 miles outside of London so a 25 min round trip, not an hour or two of solid traffic), the Judge asked DexH how he felt taking a 5 month old breast-fed baby away from an additional 3-4 feeds would be in DD's best interests? He didn't have an answer. I shall never forget the sarcasm of his reply "appeal only if you grow a pair of functioning mammary glands or there is a significant uplift in travel time, let's say 45 minutes each way". My son continued to stay over-night, but my daughter was returned.

If you are present through texts or send small cute notes or cards to your daughter when she has significant (to her) events at school, and you can't be there, make sure she has something to hold onto so she KNOWS you noticed she was doing something and you really do wish you could be there. Your exW will be thrilled that her daughter feels not forgotten. She may even send you a recording of the parent teacher interview, the concert, the games match, or salient minutes and your daughter will be thrilled that you saw it at all. Yes, 5 mins to buy a card, 5 mins to write and stick on a stamp, and I can testify to the figurative fact that her heart will swell 5 times in size when she reads the card, sees the text, reads the email that were your job more flexible, you WOULD choose to be there - if you could. Buy a couple of books of ten stamps and a couple of packs of notelets and keep a few at work and at home, even in the car. Go to the pound shop or Claires accessories and split up a pack of hair clips, stickers or funky sticky mini notes or something to pop in occasionally... When my daughter started boarding recently, we made up a thing called 'monimals'. animals that come from the imagination as my art skills are crap. Draw her something. The time you want to be with her expressed in other ways and face time her builds memories and connection.

They want to know and have tangible evidence of being important to you - they see through feint praise, worthless words and absent actions and then won't trust you when it matters. These things have immense value - as does showing up when you could be doing something else more fun. Parenting: where selfish ambition dies to the greater good, especially when you aren't in your first choice place, and it isn't about an equal split, it is about being, doing and showing whenever you can.

You will, because you choose too and that is wonderful.

Some really good replies there from wibble, toss coin and wonderwall. In my own case, I stayed in a failed marriage for about 6 years after it was obvious that we had to separate eventually because I was worried about not being there for the children.
They are now old enough to choose to see me.

Not all mothers are capable of putting the interests of their children above themselves, my ex proposed that she have the kids over Christmas from 23rd -28th December, I live 25 minutes away!!
I didn't even bother arguing with her, just asked the kids what they wanted to do over Christmas.

I have moved to a home, a 5 minute walk from my youngest's school rather than a bus ride to make it difficult to argue that she can't stay with me, although she has tried!

If it is important enough for you to be involved with your children, then there are changes that you can make to your life, career, hobbies that mean that you are able to be more involved. I have given up a very good, high status job but with a long commute for a much inferior one from a money/status perspective but which gives me more flexibility and is local.
Some good suggestions in the thread.