Are cyclists hated in your country?

[boyl99]

I am in the UK, and cyclists are subject to hatred, both generally and in the media.

Any cycling infrastructure plans are attacked as being "anti-motorist", we are all inconsiderate scum who clog up the roads, jump red lights, etc.

Is your country equally anti-cyclist?

So much to unpack in this amusing post!

1. "I LOATHE the obnoxious, lycra-clad older men". Why do you care what cyclists wear? The obsessive hate for lycra makes you look unhinged. Do you hate runners who wear lycra or is it just cyclists? Plenty of pedestrian wear lycra these days: in their leggings, their stretch jeans, their pants, their socks...do you hate all these people too?
2. "cycling club members who ride in a pack of 6 (in 3 pairs) at a leisurely 15-20 miles an hour". You can tell that you never ride a bike, because 15-20 mph is not leisurely for any cyclist. I've ridden a bike all my life and I need to be going downhill or have a following wind to be able to sustain 15 mph for any distance over 200 yards
3. "If they rode single file there would be sufficient room to overtake with more than the required 1.5m leeway," Are you aware that riding in pairs is encouraged by the highway code?

a. It prevents motorists from thinking that they can sneak a quick overtake in without having to cross the central line into oncoming traffic, which often results in dangerously close passes b. When cyclists are in pairs rather than single file, the overall length of the group is shorter, meaning that a properly distanced overtake uses less space and time c. When riders are in single file it is more likely that a driver may not be able to overtake the whole group in one go; a driver overtaking a single file group and encountering oncoming traffic halfway through the overtake may be tempted to just pull into the group of cyclists where there is no room d. It gives greater safety to any vulnerable cyclists in the group - e.g. children and nervous riders

From the highway code:

• Rule 66: Be considerate of the needs of other road users when riding in groups. You can ride two abreast and it can be safer to do so, particularly in larger groups or when accompanying children or less experienced riders. Be aware of drivers behind you, and allow them to overtake (e.g. by moving into single file or stopping) when you feel it is safe to let them do so.
• Rule 213: On narrow sections of road, on quiet roads or streets, at road junctions and in slower-moving traffic, cyclists may sometimes ride in the centre of the lane, rather than towards the side of the road. It can be safer for groups of cyclists to ride two abreast in these situations. Allow them to do so for their own safety, to ensure they can see and be seen. Cyclists are also advised to ride at least a door’s width or 1.0m from parked cars for their own safety.

I wonder how long, in reality, your car journey is delayed by the "two-mile tailback" (really?). 2 minutes? And I also wonder how many cars are in your tailback. That's a lot of traffic. And you know what traffic jams usually consist of? Cars. In general, it is other cars that cause traffic delays, not bicycles. But you don't "loathe" other motorists, rhe ones that cause the hold-ups, the ones that kill over a thousand pedestrians a year. No, your hatred is reserved for lycra-clad old men on bikes

What is it that we say here on Mumsnet? Oh yes: give your head a wobble!

Cars should not be aiming to pass them without encroaching upon the opposite lane. And cyclists are encouraged to cycle two abreast for their own safety. This isn't my opinion, I'm not even a cyclist, it's all in the Highway Code.

You say it's entitled behaviour, but cyclists are fully entitled to use our roads. Unlike drivers, they don't even a licence to do so. Most of the entitled, selfish and snobbish behaviour I see comes from drivers. God forbid anything might interfere with driving anywhere they like, whenever they like, as fast as possible...

And so much to unpack in this amusing reply! (Your username says it all really…)

It’s obvious I was replying, somewhat tongue in cheek, to the title and spirit of the thread.

But yes, this type of road user behaviour IS a problem from a men’s cycling group in our local area. In fact they’ve had a visit from road traffic police at one of their meetings after they failed to let an ambulance with flashing lights pass them!
The problem is that cyclists often quote the ‘safer to ride two abreast’ guidance but ignore the additional guidance which you also quoted in your long (oh, sooooo long) reply:
Be aware of drivers behind you, and allow them to overtake (e.g. by moving into single file … when you feel it is safe to let them do so.
My DH regularly cycles the same road and says it is perfectly safe and wide enough for a car to pass cyclists travelling single file. (He is also often Lycra-clad, but thankfully not too much of a knob…)

And to your “you’ve clearly never written a bike” comment - how funny! I’ve ridden bikes all over Europe and done the 54 mile London to Brighton bike ride many times. You?

As to the 15-20 mph comment - are you aware of e-bikes? Very popular with groups of older riders these days and allow sustained higher speeds. Try one if you’re struggling!

That’s another example of poor cycling design - bicycles are used by some as mobility aids so routes should be designed not to require dismounting.

If your Council’s Transport Dept doesn’t design routes well, people will behave in a way that annoys other people, however they are travelling. Yes, they probably shouldn’t do this is they can dismount, but your Transport Dept needs to do better too.

With the greatest respect, if those cyclists were all in a line, that makes the line 30 or 40m long, on a twisty road, you'd still not get by.

But you might do is try to pass 1 or 2 at a time, cutting back in onto the cyclist as an on coming car approaches, potentially killing them and delaying your journey by hours and having their death on you...

Its also very worrying you think overtaking a single cyclist with an oncoming car approaching is perfectly ok... on a road just 2.5x the width of a car.... they may not be aware of your intention....

You should consider some additional driver training.

I used drive around 35k a year until recently, i ve been held up by many things, car accidents, tractors, road works, shear volume of traffic but hardly ever by cyclists.

The other issue is some car drivers just wont over take, even when safe to do so, they'll sit behind the cyclist until they've 1/2 mile of clear road in front, this often causes the tailbacks you might have experienced.

If your Council were designing routes to Local Transport Route 1/20 standards, then children could cycle safely to school for those distances. The cello might be challenging but most instruments are smaller & you can certainly cycle with a guitar-sized instrument. Cricket kits would be manageable with panniers.

Needing that equipment suggests secondary education, & with safe routes children of that age would be able to cycle independently, which would make it much easier for their parents to get to work.

If you think you can get cricket equipment in panniers, you’ve clearly never had a child who plays cricket! And no, this is at primary, not secondary level.
A violin or flute backpack might be OK, but brass instruments are bulky and heavy and can cause instability, and of course that’s in addition to normal school bags of files and books and maybe a packed lunch.

The people proposing school cycling in our area haven’t a clue, and have probably never done a school run in their life!

We did plenty of cycling with the kids at weekends on proper cycle paths though.

I'm a cyclist, a motorist and a pedestrian. I'd be pretty stupid to hate any of these groups, but I do get annoyed by other people's behaviours. It's mostly drivers though that do stupid and dangerous things. Besides, when you think about it, car traffic is a problem for everyone except for the person driving: it's noisy, unsafe, polluting. Even parked cars take up so much space that could be used in many better ways. The world would be a cleaner, safer and quieter place if more people walked and cycled instead of driving.

It depends on the panniers - rear open basket ones are good for sports equipment & guitars; Carradice large touring ones can take a lot & there’s always the option of bungee cords on the rack or a rucksack. It depends on the child’s fitness and skill - but children who grow up using cycling as a regular form of transport can usually cycle much further than most people realise. It also depends on the bike - but if a family wants to cycle as your main transport for the school run, there are lots of choices to make it easier (eg individual bikes, tandem, triplet, longtail cargo bike with a rack seat for kids or a bakfiet style cargo bike). We’ve managed brass instruments by bike - the only thing you’ve mentioned that I would balk at is the cello - but there’ll be a video somewhere of someone transporting one by bike, probably in a bakfiet.

If cycling is the best way for a family to do the school run, they usually cope with the luggage - the real problem is the lack of safe cycling routes &/ problems with dangerous driving.

I don’t know the circumstances of what is happening in your area, but it sounds very fraught. I am surprised if your local campaign is saying that all children have to cycle to school as normally road safety campaigners just want roads to be safe to cycle so that people who want to cycle can.

I live in France and it's a bit of both. Many motorists are upset about the number of cycle paths overtaking the roads and denying access to cars particularly in Paris. Although that seems to have calmed down a bit now. Generally though cyclists are respected on the roads and have been for years. It was always said here you respect cyclists and give them a wide berth as no one wants to run down a top French cyclist. I think the recent proliferation of electric bikes annoy people. They annoy me. They go too fast and have no road awareness on a bike. They annoy me when I'm cycling.

I don't know why there are these lycra hating posts. Have any of you ever ridden a bike in a serious way? It's not the lycra it's the padding needed which you only get with lycra shorts, shorts in another material with padding don't exist. You can't ride 100 km without that. All this moaning about cyclists and lycra, if you do that regularly you are keeping fit and healthy. Surely that's important

Jealousy!

To some people (luckily a minority) cycling highlights to the unfit, obese & overweight the shortcomings in their lifestyles, same with people who run, the abuse my DD gets whilst out running is insane.

Interesting you say about France, some the most scariest moments i ve had on quiet roads with close passes, has been in France, in the UK it's usually loads of room but on a blind bend, on-coming traffic....

I don't hate people with pierced ears, everyone is different and hating someone on their particular mode of transport seems bonkers imo in the same way that hating people with pierced ears, or tattoos

Are you mostly talking to other expats or to Spanish people? The fact you use the phrase cycle wankers suggests it's the former. So perhaps not representative of the Spanish attitude to cyclists?

what puzzles me is cars that try to speed from side roads without realising there may be a bycycle on the main road, that and cars think they can push past rather than wait 10 secs to then get stuck at the top of the side road waiting to turn onto the main road

and the general public Jwalking does not help

Not talking to, living. And a mixture of both.

It's not a cyclists in general thing, not in my area anyway. People cycling to school or work or whatever with their kids don't irritate anyone. It's the big groups of professionals (?) who show no respect for the rules of the road or other users. Whose huge tour buses think nothing of parking blocking someone's driveway and are most unpleasant when asked to move. They are dangerous. Some of them are at least apologetic when they cause accidents or have near misses but too many are aggressive in their reactions. They are the ones everyone hates, not your average cyclist.

So cyclists driving buses, is that correct?

I’m in UK. I don’t hate cyclists but have had cyclists cycling on pavements the wrong way towards me (pedestrian), cyclists cycling through red lights and push button crossings, often with people trying to walk across. That’s two things.

Spend a lot of time in Spain and we always call a group of cyclists (particularly on a Sunday morning) skittles.
they are waiting to be taken down.
Their arrogance is off the scale.
I appreciate it’s a national sport, but really do they have to go two or three abreast?
might be accepted on a minor road, but really on a main road?
Especially when they come to a hilll.
they don’t go down to two abreast or even one, they even hold up tractors!!
it’s infuriating!!

Should also say I hate the habit of locals going out every Sunday morning to shoot their rabbits for their Sunday paella.
they don’t seem to appreciate that some of their rogue pellets end up in our pool when the kids would be swimming.
luckily when the kids were young my mum mastered screaming at the top of her lungs to stop, very impolitely.
even worse when the wild boar were around!!
(sorry that’s a tangent you didn’t ask for 😂)

You seem to be creating an equivalence between some cyclists who hold you up for a couple of minutes on a journey and people firing rifles into a space where your children play...😳

I bet the locals also hate people (Tourists/immigrants) like you moaning about their national sport and pastimes.

At the end of the day, if you don't like cycling and folk legally shooting rabbits (even flying ones if the pellets really do land in your pool)

Then maybe that particular part of Spain isn't for you?

Motorists are OBVIOUSLY (do literally any research) far more dangerous, entitled, arrogant and polluting than cyclists, so it’s just totally fucking NUTS (like it literally makes me feel I’m going insane like all contemporary culture-war discourse!!) that ANY energy at all is expended on slagging off cyclists. It’s so pathetic and embarrassing. All we should be talking about in the context of cycling is how to get more people doing it and how to make it safer for those who already do. The end.

"Skittles waiting to be taken down?" Are you the kind of person who laughs in the comments section when you read reports of a cyclist being hit by a car?

I've been knocked off and hospitalised by a taxi driver doing 60 in a 30 zone, then some years later by a car of young lads who undertook a car which had moved out to the outer lane (of a dual carriage way 30mph road) to safely overtake me. They stopped down the road then sped off as soon as they saw me stand up. My 15 year old son was knocked off by a motorist who overtook him and immediately turned left across his path. All three incidents were clearly hilarious.

My question as to whether @FullLondonEye was Spanish or ex-pat was relevant because, as you point out, cycling is something of a national sport on many mainland European countries and I don't think you find the same demonisation of cyclists that we get here. Ex-pats, on the other hand, might be more likely to align with the tabloid/anti environmentalist attitude that bikes basically shouldn't be on the road.