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What ^should^ feminism be about these days?

130 replies

Monkeytrousers · 17/09/2007 19:40

?

OP posts:
startouchedtrinity · 17/09/2007 20:34

It's the impression I get.

Am concerned about comments I hear from mums talking in front of my dcs about how fat they are when they have great figures. Some belong to slimming clubs.

Am waiting for dd1 to be ashamed of me b/c I am a little - not a lot - overweight.

And am embarking on fitness programme so that doesn't happen

startouchedtrinity · 17/09/2007 20:35

I think was is modern about prostitution is that it is now mainstream. Go out for teh night, have afew beers, go to abrothel...

Kathyis6incheshigh · 17/09/2007 20:36

I do think appearance is an issue in academia, definitely. A friend of mine was on an appointments panel approving research fellowships and she reported that the (mostly male) panel was making completely different comments on the men and the women - 'he's very good' for the men and 'she's charming' etc for the women. She was really shocked.

bigmouthstrikesagain · 17/09/2007 20:37

Yes senore - it does but Feminism is an 'ism' and is studied as a political theory in a way that other equal rights movements are not - which means it is treated in a slighly different way. I suppose I was just clarifying my view of what feminism should be in answer to the op.

Cappuccino · 17/09/2007 20:37

all of these

and raising status of SAHMs and 'housewives' and encouragement of pride in and recognition of these roles

norkmaiden · 17/09/2007 20:39

The mostly male panel? That happens rather a lot in academia, doesn't it?!

norkmaiden · 17/09/2007 20:41

I take your point Bigmouth, and I agree that feminism is perhaps most useful (relevant?) when used alongside another big category (class would be the one for me, race for others maybe) - but I think that always to do that is partly to miss the point of feminism.

bigmouthstrikesagain · 17/09/2007 20:42

I think apperence is an 'issue' and I am concerned about how superficiality and celebrity is valued so highly. Big Brother and the cynical use of lovely but stupid young women for one example (there are many). This is what I mean about critical faculties if you understand what you are seeing 'maybe' you can not buy into it so readily. Unfortunately political education comes to late for our children.

It is a personal bug bear for me that politics is not taught at an earlier stage (pre-GCSE)

Hurlyburly · 17/09/2007 20:44

all choices being open to all

treating everyone equally and fairly (including your children)

Anna8888 · 17/09/2007 20:55

Teaching women better negotiation skills. Far the most important issue. Women are terrible negotiators.

Ensuring that women who choose to bring up their children rather than engage in paid work are treated with equal respect to their male earning partners.

Raising the status of parenting.

Helping the world move towards a more flexible approach to the hours required to engage in interesting and valuable paid work.

MarshaBrady · 17/09/2007 21:08

I completely agree with that Bigmouth. I became aware of a whole world of critical and cultural studies at university. It broadened my mind and horizons in a way that I could not imagine even with strong maths / literature at the end of highschool.

So for me, feminism is part of this critical thinking and alternative way to view the world. But there is no set path from there.

berolina · 17/09/2007 21:14

Addressing the dreadful casual (media) sexualisation and objectification of women.

Relationships as partnerships, particularly wrt parenting.

Tackling rape and sexual violence.

Monkeytrousers · 17/09/2007 21:24

Look at you all! This is brilliant! Thanks!

I am ignorant about the problems with 'isms'.

Feminism is the archetype 'ism' surely, AND a humanitatian political movement. Does the 'ism' detract from that?

Norksbride, I am working on an article of the same name, I'll post it when I've finished for your feedback. I need the practice.

CAN I QUOTE YOU ALL ON THIS??

(if not just say so here)

But please carry on!

OP posts:
Monkeytrousers · 17/09/2007 21:30

"In the United States of the mid-nineteenth century, the phrase "the isms" was used as a collective derogatory term to lump together the radical social reform movements of the day". wiki link

OP posts:
phdlife · 17/09/2007 21:35

And didn't Ferris Bueller tell us generally he believed isms to be a bad thing...?

(I really want to contribute more usefully, it'll just have to be some day when my brain is visiting)

stealthsquiggle · 17/09/2007 22:09

Brain not functioning well enough to digest the entire thread but my reaction to the OP was "not having to be either apologetic or agressive about being a feminist"

WideWebWitch · 17/09/2007 22:27

Quite stealth. I wish more women felt feminism spoke to them and I wish they felt able to describe themselves as feminists. I think many (especially younger) women don't feel it's relevant to them and somehow have this view that the battle is won because we have the vote and the equal pay act. Hmm.

Bigmouthstrikesagain "If we equip our children with the awareness and critical faculties to analyse what is presented to them instead of blindly accepting whatever society, media etc. throws at them we will be doing them a great service. A feminist perspective is essential still."

I absolutely agree. While society blindly accepts Nuts and Loaded and The Sun then women will be at a disadvantage and men are being conned without even necessarily noticing it. Both are being sold a myth about women and about male/female relationships.

And no-one challenges the idea that women feel pressure to look younger for longer and longer (says she, aware of the irony as she runs a mn www 10 yy thread) - it's accepted as correct, we don't question it much anymore. We think we want beauty, say, but haven't even noticed that we've been brainwashed and told what we should want and have fallen for it.

rantinghousewife · 17/09/2007 22:30

Hmm, well speaking for myself, I certainly don't feel that the battle is anywhere near won. Not when we still have huge disparity between male and female pay rates and certainly not when we still have a justice system that plainly thinks that some women 'ask' to be raped because their skirt was above the knee.
But I do accept that lots of young women can't see this, maybe because the original aims of feminism were somewhat different and haven't evolved properly.

Monkeytrousers · 17/09/2007 23:28

Okay, if you don't register a no can I safely assume you are okay with me using you as source for my essay??

This is really great btw - it has been a while since we had a 'good' thread on feminism.

OP posts:
stealthsquiggle · 17/09/2007 23:34

Is MN an officially acceptable "source" to quote nowadays?!

Damn. Must try harder to be quotable.

Monkeytrousers · 17/09/2007 23:57

I was here first!

OP posts:
madamez · 18/09/2007 00:17

Keepign on explaining that women are human beings. That's full human beings, with rights and autonomy. We need to keep reminding assorted dorks who should know better that 'culture' is not an acceptable excuse for treating women as objects, and religious sensibilities do not outweigh women's human rights either.

Tortington · 18/09/2007 00:23

feminism is the art of activley splitting the masses - these splinter special interest groups detract from the real gains that could IMO be obtained if we came together and lobbied for fairer society.

welliemum · 18/09/2007 03:41

I think feminism has got a bit lost now. In fact I think it's becoming harmful to keep thinking about women as a group. IMO we should instead concentrate on women as people.

As soon as we define ourselves primarily as women, we're setting limits both in our own minds and in the minds of others, based on what we believe women to be like or what women need. And there are people out there who have some pretty revolting ideas about what women are good for.

Better, IMO, to work towards being treated primarily as individuals, and then leave it up to individuals to decide what being a woman means to them.

WideWebWitch · 18/09/2007 09:05

fine re source mt

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