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Creative writing

Would somebody please read these few paragraphs for me?

67 replies

Greensleeves · 14/11/2008 10:18

it's the opening bit to my novel which I'm working on in a really disorganised and patchy fashion - it's a novel about an autistic woman who suffers a breakdown, and her road to recovery, her way of looking at the world and her obsessions and phobias, with a backdrop of her studies in early modern witch-beliefs (drawing parallels between individual and aggregate psychology around mysticism/magical thinking/primal fears etc) and feminist critical theory, focusing a lot on her troubled relationship with her mother who probably also had autism but wasn't recognised - hard to explain but probably quite poncy

I know it's narcissistic but I haven't got anyone IRL that I want to embarrass myself in front of...

if it's awful adolescent doggerel then please TELL me

but tell me gently

here goes



I have a strange and powerful relationship with clothes. It?s visceral, carnal; real love, equally real loathing. I could browse the whole spectrum of human emotions, just rifling through the reels in a dressmakers? shop. Clothes are intoxicating. Close your eyes and breathe slowly. Listen. A swirling bell-shaped skirt, peppermint satin, cool, light, fluid, rippling over your legs in the summer sunshine. A chocolate velvet party dress, shirred bronze in candlelight, brushing your face like the wings of a moth for an instant before falling into place about your body with the warm weight of luxury. A smoky grey felt glove lying on a polished oak floor, slim-fingered, reposing in a gesture of languid assent.


Architecture lends us a man-made world, a skilful illusion borne out of our innate fear of abandonment. Our minds are dwarfed and derailed by the complexity of Nature?s own constructive genius, we struggle like a child in an 11+ exam required to ?continue the pattern 98723436287678891467?. Our intuition tells us that randomness is a falsehood and that there must be a formula, a logic, and tells us also that our brains are simply too rudimentary to perceive it yet ? millions of years lie between us and the truth. To second-guess evolution is a dangerous game ? would you hand a four year old a butcher knife? Our deepest fears, dramatised most eloquently in the Book of Genesis, revolve around the fear of human beings acquiring and inevitably misusing the mathematical language of Nature. When God threw that apple at Newton, he should have picked it up and examined it ? he might have seen the marks of Adam?s teeth.


So we inhabit a crudely pixellated landscape of flat colours and right angles, a world chopped up like a toddler?s dinner into bite-sized blocks, smoothly interacting before our eyes like a perfect game of Tetris. Our urban super-reality is designed to support and enclose us in an illusion of safety ? buildings define our limits, they mark out our territory and direct our movements. They are the unblinking stewards on the periphery of our vision, shouting out instructions; dress codes, appropriate noise levels, a visual autocue of the expectations which lie within. Buildings can hold us dear in an unending embrace, keep us warm and dry, shield us from the terrifying complexity and sheer scale of ?outside?, or they can grip, punish and isolate us when we transgress. And when they crumble, our instinctive selves coil and leap with fear and fascination.

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Greensleeves · 15/11/2008 11:27

Wow, this is SO helpful and I see exactly where everyone is coming from with the first bit, I think reading it back, it's a bit like a stream of consciousness of what the book is going to be about, and I should treat it as 'writer's notes' rather than include it as it is.

NQC you're a star, thank you for your very constructive criticism, and do expect stuff by email . I would love to read and comment on yours too.

the architecture bit, I'm trying to illuminate this woman's peculiar way of interpreting ordinary things, seeing architecture as the masculine/artifice/imposition of man onto nature, with textiles/'soft' furnishings, clothes being the feminine principle.... but I haven't written that up properly yet, I need to find this woman's voice and distinguish it properly from my own, because it ISN'T me

I see what you mean about them being two very different pieces with very different voices etc - this is deliberate, I wanted to try and convey the choppiness, fluid identity, sort of 'social eholalia' that being an autistic adult entails - but maybe this won't work, or maybe it will only work when the whole book is written.... I'll think about it

the plot - the rope thing is meant to be a kind of surreal, picturesque symbol, I wanted the 'gritty reality' bit of the attempted suicide and treatment and the actual nuts and bolts of the plot to blur slightly with the fantastical (I'm explaining this really really poorly)

the idea is that the psychotherapist who has hourly sessions with the post-suicidal narrator has managed to get the forensic people to let her have the rope - which the woman has made out of 'important' scraps of fabric she's accreted along with her memories (as an autistic individual she has access to her sharpest memories only by means of a physical signifier, the rope is supposed to be a bit like a rosary which she eventually used to try to off herself because the bad memories were winning)

the psychotherapist presents the woman with a piece of the rope each session, a square of fabric, and the woman (because she can't 'do' give-and-take conversation very well) will just talk freely about the associations it provokes... then gradually she begins to be able to sort out and decipher the shorthand of memories and begin to heal herself. She's going to make the rope pieces into a wonderful surreal magincian-style tapestry coat in the end and saunter out of the hospital wearing it (I WANT the pot to border on the overblown and impossible, that's part of her 'reality')

I suppose a bit like in Alias Grace where he uses a different vegetable to provoke disclosures from Grace in prison

does ANY of this make sense? I'm going to post a couple of the "therapy session" bits just to make sense, but you don't have to read them....

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Greensleeves · 15/11/2008 11:35

here's one:

*

Elsa isn?t smiling her counsellor?s welcome when she comes to collect me from the waiting room this time. I?m ten minutes late, but it isn?t my fault ? my alarm clock didn?t go off, and the traffic on St Giles was unusually dense for a Tuesday. I know she thinks they?re excuses, but they?re true. Reasons, not excuses. I don?t know where to look, so I stare fixedly at the fish tank (darting flashes of tetra neons, a little stone bridge, a sucking loach progressing slowly up the mossy glass) until she speaks:

?Come up.?

I hate following her up the stairs after she?s used that tone with me. She?s made me into a recalcitrant naughty child just by treating me like one, nothing in my demeanour can correct it now. My stomach is shaking a bit inside me, I can feel it, which probably means cramps and diarrhoea in an hour or so. I remember lying on my bed at the age of 18, on my first trip home from university, watching my ownstomach flipping up and down under my new funky lime-green top and black mini. My mother was crashing around shouting (to herself, for my benefit) and I was frightened. I remember that a small part of me was dispassionately intrigued that she could produce a fear reaction in me that was so animal that I couldn?t control it with logic (she can?t hurt me, she?s just a little woman with arthritic hips). I couldn?t control my body with my mind.

I sit down in the green armchair and try to look neutral. She crosses the room (why is she dressed like a public-school English teacher today? I?ve never seen that horsy tweed skirt before) and takes her seat opposite, regarding me with a cool expectant displeasure.

?I?m sorry I?m late. My alarm didn?t go off, and the traffic was really bad. I did run, but it just wasn?t possible?

?You were late last week too. And you were late the week before.?

She did say at one point that if I was going to miss half the session it was a waste of her time and mine, which means that if I carry on being late she is going to refuse to see me any more. An idea I find strangely hurtful.

?You look defensive and cross,? she says, ?Are you are feeling upset because you feel that I am angry with you??

?Well, yes, nobody likes offending people, do they? And it annoys me that you think this is all some big avoidance exercise, some sort of game, when in fact it?s all about a broken clock and a lamentable dearth of appropriate traffic management. You?re seeing things that aren?t there.?

She smiles now. She isn?t really angry, I know that, it?s all part of the service ? so why is my stomach still vibrating? I read that there is a thick nerve that runs through the stomach, called the vagus nerve. I think she is twanging mine deliberately, to winkle out the memories and the meanings.

?The point is, although every week the excuses ? sorry, reasons are individually plausible, when it becomes a habit we need to acknowledge the development of a pattern, and look at causes beyond the superficial. I?m sure there are a million and one perfectly valid reasons for being late on any given day. But I think you know, really, that this is a behaviour, not a series of unfortunate coincidences. Don?t you? Can we explore this a bit??

I understand about patterns and multi-causality. I have a research degree from this god-forsaken theme park of a university. She isn?t cleverer than me, she?s just older and has had more therapy. God, she?s right, I am feeling defensive. And no, I bloody well don?t want to explore it. The best fit line through this is just to tell her what we both know to be the case and then we can move on.

?I suppose I am probably projecting my feelings of anger and powerlessness onto the therapeutic relationship ? rebelling against you as I couldn?t against her. You have set the boundary that our sessions will last for one hour. I have successively failed to wheedle you into extending the time past the hour, however earth-shattering the disclosures I make in the last ten minutes. So logic would suggest that I am imposing my own control by curtailing the sessions at the other end. Does that sound right??

She smiles genuinely this time.

?Yes, it sounds right.?

There?s a short silence during which I suspect I am intended to feel tacitly reproved for trying to take a short cut.

?You were right though, I do feel cross with you. Can you tell me how that makes you feel??

?I don?t understand how it makes me feel. I feel wound up and nauseous. Can we just start on the usual stuff? After all, time is short.?

I nearly said ?time is money?, but this is a free counselling service. All the more reason to turn up on time, I suppose.

The scrap of cloth this time is baby pink, fleecy, with a rough nylon back. I?m not having any trouble recognising this one. If I was feeling sick before, I?m in danger of sullying Elsa?s stylishly faded carpet now.

?OK, I know this one. Can I just talk??

?Of course. Take your time. Just tell the story.?

?When my mother first left my father (I have a vivid but unverified memory of being bundled into a taxi on the side of the road a few doors up from his house, in the dark. There?s a sort of weird electrical urgency around that memory, which with hindsight I think you could call pain) we lived in a flat, a concrete block, for a bit. I slept in a top bunk in the same room as my mother and my soon-to-be-stepfather. There were fleas. There was a ?moving-in present? under each of our blankets when we moved in; my brother?s was a beach ball. I buy inflatables now for my kids at Christmas, they?re cheap, colourful and never fail to impress. There was a lady in one of the top flats who had a little girl called Josie, she had strawberry blonde hair and freckles. Her mum used to dangle toast on a string all the way down to the ground and swing it, we used to run to catch it. The bins round the back of the flats stank of green bread mould. I remember the room I shared with them. My mother once offered me a shiny five pence piece to stop ?playing with myself? ?

Elsa leans forward.

?Some children masturbate for comfort. Your mother offered you money to stop. Did she ask you why you were doing it so much??

?No. She just wanted me to stop it. If there were no outward signs of dysfunction, then there was no dysfunction. Simple.?

A kid called Lindsay Davis taught me how to do it. She suggested it as an alternative to making myself bleed. It produced one of those fleeting but powerful friendships that young children are prone to ? we would sit together in school, merrily rubbing ourselves under the desk. I feel guilty about Lindsay Davis, because looking back with my adult eyes I think she was in serious trouble. She took me into the toilets once and showed me bruising on her bottom and thighs, which she said was from ?falling off the swing?. The whole area was black and purple with yellow and green patches. I don?t think I?ve ever seen such severe contusions on a human body since. I wish I?d told somebody. Years later I went to an aunt?s 60th birthday party in the hall of a local secondary school and caught sight of the name ?Lindsay Davis? on a painting of horses in a field of buttercups, in a little exhibition of pupil?s artwork in the foyer. It was delicately painted, precise, sensitive. It had won first prize. I hoped and hoped that it was the same Lindsay Davis. I?m not telling Elsa this stuff, it?s not relevant to her inquiries, as it were.

?When we left the flats, we moved into a terraced house on the other side of town. It had a big window with a net curtain in the lounge, once there was a plague of flying ants in that window, hundreds and hundreds of them. There weren?t any carpets, just this rippled green underlay that felt springy under my feet. I didn?t see why we needed carpets to cover it up. Soon after we moved into that place I remember seeing ? quite by accident ? my stepfather interrogating my brother, who would have been about eight, in the dining room. I can?t remember what he had done. Suddenly my stepfather got the answer he had been waiting for to one of his questions.

?Right. Thanks!? he said triumphantly, and yanked my brother?s trousers and underpants down, whacking him really hard on his bottom at least fifteen times. My brother was quiet but really crying. I can?t remember whether we were used to being punished like that or not, my memory before the divorce is quite patchy. It was the violence of the act that impressed me, and the suddenness, and the apparent pleasure. Bastard.

That incident marked a turning point for me. From that point on I became hypervigilant, watchful. I developed a habit of spying on my brother and sister when they were being smacked. I viewed the whole spectacle in terror and fascination, overwhelmed. I acquired a ?nervous cough?, wet the bed every night and began peeling bits of skin off my arms and fingers and eating them. I bit the insides of my cheeks until they bled, usually at school ? I would pool the blood on my tongue and then show it to my classmates saying ?tell the teacher, my tongue is bleeding again?. (I deeply resented the severely epileptic child in my class that year; the drama of her condition far outshone my puny efforts).

I was a very pink and prissy little girl. I liked dolls and fairies and pretty dresses. Paradoxically, a memory nobody can ever spoil for me is of my sixth birthday cake. My birthday present was a long-coveted pair of sugar-pink roller boots, which I wore until they fell to pieces. I adored them. God, I loved my mother that day. I loved her so much I could have climbed back inside her and stayed there for ever. She brought out the cake and set it down in front of me, and all I could see was pink and candles and bliss and excitement. She prompted me:

?What is it, Abby??

?Boots!?

?With wheels???

?They?re roller boots!?

We collided again on that plane where emotions are so strong, so pure that they stream like sunlight and blot out the physical, merging two people into one.

My other birthday present was a fleecy pink dressing-gown. It was big and cuddly and the exact perfect shade of pink. It felt cosy and warm. The label inside the neck said ?Happitots?. I thought that was charming I sat at the bottom of the stairs murmuring to myself ?Happitots, Happitots, I?m a Happitot?, stroking the soft fleece with my fingertips.

Elsa smirked.

?That?s sweet. Happitots. ?

?It was sweet, I loved it. I wore it every day until it got spoiled.?

?What happened to it? Did it get damaged??

?Nothing happened to it, it just got spoiled, for me. Please, just let me get this out of my system, now I?ve started. A few weeks after that birthday we were getting ready for school on a normal morning ? my mother was ironing my dress (pink gingham with a white belt) downstairs. She had woken up in one of her rages and was stage-whispering angrily to herself. Bloody lazy, dirty little buggers. Bone bloody idle. Easy come, easy go. Just like their bloody father. That bastard, he?s fucking welcome to them. There was a scuffle of some sort at the bottom of the stairs and then I heard her voice rising in fury, then the sound of a hand slapping repeatedly against bare flesh. My brother again, I don?t know what he?d done. I think he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. I hid on the upstairs landing and watched, riveted. It gave me a peculiar sensation for which I don?t think there is actually an accurate word. Horrified, fascinated, frightened?..and something else, something I hadn?t felt before. Something that made me feel sick and a bit excited. She saw me, grinned wildly, threw my brother to one side and bellowed:

?Abigail! Come and get your dress!?

I came down the stairs at a run, trying to sidle past her into the kitchen, but she grabbed me by one arm and starting smacking me really hard. She was smiling a horrible twisted smile as her hand banged into me over and over again. I thought she would never stop.

?It?s your turn now, isn?t it?? she hissed into my face, flecking me with saliva. I reached up to wipe the spittle away and she whacked me across the face.

?Get your dress!?

That was the worst bit, having to go past her into the kitchen, pick up the dress from the ironing board and pass her again to go back upstairs, while she watched me with that awful glee on her face and my backside throbbing with its own pulse. I was surprised at how intense the pain was, I knelt on my bed for a few minutes crying and rocking back and forth trying to get the pain to subside. The heat was intense too and it made the lower half of my body feel agitated in a way I didn?t understand and didn?t like. I took off my pink fleecy dressing gown and caught sight of the label. Happitots. That made the tears start again, because instinct was telling me that an invisible line had been crossed , something had been broken that could never be repaired, and I would never be happy again.

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Greensleeves · 15/11/2008 11:37

and another:

***

This week, as I settle into the sunken green velvet armchair, kicking off my shoes and curling my feet under me for comfort, Elsa produces a square of white rumpled fabric and lays it on the little coffee table between us. As usual, she leans back into her own chair, breathing quietly and averting her eyes. I?m not pushing you. Take your time, she doesn?t say. The clock ticks purposefully on the wall above her head, marking out the boundary between our time and the moment when she will show me out through the big white-painted panelled front door into the quiet little tree-lined street. But this time, instead of a jolt of recognition followed by the desperate fumbling against time to couch my response in cool and neutral terms, to buy myself some time before we start dissecting me again. I?m experiencing?..confusion. Brain fog. I know this material, I can feel it under the fingers of my mind as clearly as though I had worn it yesterday. But which is it?

?I?m not sure. White linen, slightly furred with use. I don?t know for certain this time.?

Elsa?s body doesn?t react with surprise the way the body of a normal person ? I mean not a therapist, someone not putting on an act ? would. But there?s a flicker of one eyebrow which I notice. She has green eyes and tawny eyebrows, she?s not an attractive woman but the emerald and the ginger go so well together I can?t look at her eyes without mine wandering to her eyebrows instead. She calls it ?soft-focusing?, apparently I do it as an avoidance technique, but I don?t agree with that. I just have a fine appreciation for beauty, especially the little flecks of it you catch in otherwise unprepossessing things, if your eyes are open to detail.

Elsa?s wondering what this means, me being wrongfooted by one of my cloths.. It?s never happened, in these sessions. Which probably means she?s been waiting for it to happen, and it will turn out to ?mean something?. This could be the breakthrough, the way in, I think I hear her mind musing. I don?t think she?s right though, I?m not getting any waves of raw emotion or troubling flashbacks. Just a sort of misty jumble of images. White linen, I never realised it had played such a pivotal role in my life. I don?t even like it, personally. It always looks crumpled and misshapen to me, you can?t iron the stuff. It was one of those fabrics my mother raved about, ?ooooh, it?s linen!? or better still, ?Italian linen! Veeeeery swish,? in tones of reverence. There were several of them; ?oooh, it?s seersucker? (pinching the fabric between her fingers to emphasize the dimpled texture), ?it?s lovely, it?s velour, look!?. She had nostalgic yearnings for ticking bedclothes and cake doilies. She had a physical memory like mine, I think ? I remember the look of rapture in her eyes when she described a recollection of the children?s home she was in when she was five. It was of mealtimes, when all the children were seated at a big table and the staff would come round and tie a rough blue towelling bib around each little neck. It made her feel secure and cared for, the smell of clean washing and the no-nonsense rasping love of adults looking after young children. I felt sad that that was perhaps her strongest memory of feeling loved and safe. A washed out hardened old bib tied on from behind by a nameless carer in a 1950s orphanage.

Elsa drops a mildly worded pebble into the stillness.

?Shall we talk about what you?re feeling??

I bristle at that. It?s too close to ?How does that make you feel??, which I would have been able to laugh at like everyone else, had my mother not once qualified as a hypnotherapist and set up a practice (for a brief and intense period until that flame burned out too.) It was called ?The Quiet Room?. For that few months she developed an irritating habit of cocking her head on one side, fixing one with an expression of intolerable smugness and drawling ?How does that make you feel?? in the most inappropriate contexts. ?How the fuck do you think it makes me feel? I?ve just broken my wrist!? Just kidding. Like everything else upon which she fleetingly turned the blowtorch of her obsessive energy though, she was unnervingly good at it ? I remember a man coming to the door and thanking her volubly for the return of the woman he married. That?s where everything gets murky, morally ? people live gentle unassuming lives without ever seriously hurting anybody or ever seriously healing anybody. Which is a more justifiable life path, mediocrity or craziness?

Elsa rephrases her question.

?What can you tell me about this piece of fabric? Just talk about what?s in your mind.?

I need to stop wandering and really concentrate here. White linen. OK. My wedding day, my ?going-away? outfit. My mother took me out shopping in London for this, it was actually one of the nicest afternoons we ever spent together, which is probably why I would rather push it away than drag it up to the surface and have Elsa fish it out on the end of a stick and poke through it. Why should I, now it?s over?

?Just say whatever you?re seeing, whatever you?re feeling. I won?t interrupt. Just talk. Tell the story. As if you?re writing it.? It works for me, this prompted soliloquy approach. I don?t want to be bothering with the minefield of conversational minutiae on top of the onslaught of memories.

?She wanted me to have a ?going-away? outfit to change into at the reception, it was important to get everything right. We chose a beautiful full-skirted white dress with red roses all over it, from Laura Ashley. It was perfect. The ?theme? of the wedding was red and white roses. The dress had a little white plastic belt that just cinched the waist in a little. I found the belt curiously evocative, which nagged at me for days until I remembered ? when I was about 8 a mosquito or some other horrible flying needle got trapped under the white plastic belt of my school summer dress and made a ring of angry bites all around my waist. My mother was very kind and took me to see the doctor, which was a bit odd.?

?Was it odd? Taking a child to the doctor? Or the kindness??

I don?t want to tackle that idea head-on at this point, so I flash her the ghost of a scowl, and she nods slightly. I continue.

?The dress was sleeveless though, and my mother and I had always agreed that the tops of my arms were unfortunate. I needed a jacket. As always with these shopping trips (my mother and sister shopped in a completely different style from me. They identify exactly what they want down to the minutiae ? I want a mid-length A-line handkerchief-hem pincord skirt, fully lined, with a side-zip waist, in mulberry. I tend to go out with a finite bundle of cash and wander around blowing it until it?s all gone) the idea of the perfect garment gradually crystallised and became more and more remote with every shop we tried. We found one frock-coat style Italian linen jacket just one size too small, which gave me a few nasty moments.? I don?t elaborate here. My mother could be very blunt when thwarted ? Hmmm, it?s not quite going to meet over your belly, is it? Oh no, it?s hugging your arms too tightly. Can you sit down in it? We don?t want it splitting up the back.

?We did find one, we found exactly the one. We were dancing in the street with euphoria. We experienced the whole rushing excitement of The Wedding through that moment of victory over the white linen jacket. We went to Harvey Nicholls to buy the world?s most expensive lipstick (it did feel lovely, silk proteins and loads of pigment, not greasy or powdery). We paid £6.50 each for a cup of tepid coffee and a dubious fruit tart in the café, just so that we could say (mainly to each other) that we had had afternoon tea at Harvey Nicks. The whole idea makes me cringe. Harvey Nicks. Come to think about it, the whole ritual of being ceremonially giftwrapped like a doll and handed over, the symbolic wearing of white and carrying of flowers, to be taken formal possession of by a man I had already been living with for four years ? it all leaves me cold now. Funny how in her company so many of the things I despise in real life take on a different hue, as though the buzz of her presence obliterates the parts of me she?s not engaging with. It?s a sort of psychological white noise.? Elsa smiles at that. She likes metaphorical references to psychology, I?ve noticed, even clumsy ones. She?s passionate about her subject, like everyone else in Oxford.

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Greensleeves · 15/11/2008 11:57

shameless bump in the hope of weekend people having time on their hands

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moonmother · 15/11/2008 12:05

Firstly ..I love it

I agree with other posters about the first set of paragraphs being sketchy, and not seeming to fit, although I assumed as Autistic, her thoughts would be all over the place.

Second, third and fourth sets are brilliant, and I keep coming back for more.

Another one here who would like a copy when finished.

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Greensleeves · 15/11/2008 12:07

thank you for readin git moonmother!

I am going to view those first paragraphs as 'writer's notes' that need turning into something more readable, I think.

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Greensleeves · 15/11/2008 12:46

.

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LurkerOfTheUniverse · 15/11/2008 13:03

wow, those bits you posted today are great!
do you have a publisher?

it reads like 'proper' literature to me, sorry can't be more constructive

i didn't even know this section existed, shall investigate further

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Greensleeves · 15/11/2008 13:07

Noooooooo, no publisher or anything like that, am still scribbling bits on backs of envelopes! I haven't the first clue what one does about getting into print, I imagine it's virtually impossible.

thanks for reading!

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vonsudenfed · 15/11/2008 13:32

Another one reading with great interest here - you write very impressively.

The second piece you posted is a very strong beginning; I can really see that working as the start of a novel. My only query would be whether the two dense paragraphs of description at the start (which are great, but are of things that they are not seeing slow the action down a bit - perhaps you could cut a little bit of this, but also put some of it a bit further down. My feeling is that we need to be a bit more firmly established in the world of the place before we digress (or do it before they bash the door down, it's just that where it is now, it gets in the way of my seeing what they are seeing if that makes sense).

As for the first thing, I perhaps like it more than some people, particularly the first piece which is fantastically tactile and sensuous (although 'reels' of fabric brought me up short, is it not rolls, or bolts?) and could be made into a wonderful set piece.

I haven't read the other two bits as thoroughly - although I will if you like - but one question that I do have is how you structure the book. If the main part of the action is taking place in a therapist's office, it may be too static for many people. I can see the rope working exactly as you describe, but I think you need to enter more fully into this woman's past than just her descriptions of it (maybe that is what you do, but the pieces you've posted so far are more her recollection).

And, although I think you do write very evocatively and precisely, there are places where you could cut a few words, and/or simplify a bit. e.g.

an attempted suicide in an environment devoid of the usual signs of poverty and failure seemed an obscene, impossibly self-indulgent

  • this seems quite a complex and abstract way of expressing it, esp from his point of view.


But bear in mind that this comes from someone who a) uses too many words and b) has just finished a novel in which precisely nothing happens at some length.

I'm also happy to go through chunks in more detail, but it's a lot easier to do that by email (MN not the best format for this). I'd also quite like to swap some writing with you if you wanted, as I think you are the kind of reader I would like, if that makes sense.
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vonsudenfed · 15/11/2008 13:33

And that is the worst-written and most convoluted post I have ever committed to MN, so can't see why you would want to read any more of it!

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Greensleeves · 15/11/2008 13:41

vonsudenfed, thank for taking the time to read it and to write such detailed and helpful things. I am really 'using' all this advice, reading and re-reading it and it will affect what I do with the writing. Some of the criticisms are things I already wondered about and now feel clearer about, others hadn't occurred to me (the need to provide a bit of background/action outside the therapy sessions, I can see that it might end up being a bit sterile and calustrophobic otherwise)

I must say I clicked on "threads I'm on" to see if anyone had posted, and saw the phrase "worst-written and most convoluted" from your second post, my stomach nearly fell out through my arse

I'd love to swap writing, it's all invaluable!

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Greensleeves · 15/11/2008 13:41

and it should have been rolls, not reels

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vonsudenfed · 15/11/2008 13:45

arf. Sorry about shortening your life expectancy there. Are you on CAT, or shall I cat you (won't put my email address on here as it is my name!)?

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Greensleeves · 15/11/2008 13:46

I think I might have been too mean to pay the cat fee....

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vonsudenfed · 15/11/2008 13:54

There's an email heading your way, although it may not get to you until Monday if MN towers aren't there to give it a shove.

Also meant to say, that the way you describe writing - starting with bits and bobs and gradually accreting - is just what I do/did with mine. I have finished my book, or at least thought I had, but it is now being rejected by agents who alll say, lovely writing but v slow. They are, of course, all bastards. I wish I could be arsed to start another one, but don't have it in me right now.

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Boco · 15/11/2008 14:06

I just showed it to dp and he loved it. He said there are some themes and ideas that he's also writing about - he's writing a book too. He said he thought it was beautiful, just the sort of book he'd like to read.

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Jux · 15/11/2008 15:42

Greensleeves, I'm not reading any more than the first two posts as I want to save it for when I get the whole book.

I just want to say that I disagree utterly with everyone about the first 3 paragraphs - I think they show better than anything the fact that this is an autistic person, and therefore everything will be different. (I won't take it personally if you ignore me don't worry, I still want the book!)

Have you read The Speed of Dark by Elizabeth Moon? That is the only novel I have read by a non-autistic person about autistic people that made me think "this person really knows about autism". Yours looks like it'll be the second.

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Elibean · 15/11/2008 15:45

Love the therapy bits, really great idea re the materials evoking memories, and now I'm hooked. If you don't eventually manage to get this published, I'll eat my computer

More, please.

Though I shouldn't really be distracted, I'm supposed to be NaNo-ing

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Greensleeves · 15/11/2008 17:14

look forward to it vonsudenfed

Jux your interpretation of the first bit id what I was aiming for but if most people think it doesn't work maybe I should adjust it..

this is narcissism heaven really helpful everyone, thank you!!

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NotQuiteCockney · 15/11/2008 17:50

Greeny, I'm glad you liked the feedback, can do more, but not today, too busy - hopefully tomorrow. Do you want me to do it on here, or by email?

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Greensleeves · 15/11/2008 17:51

Hi NQC email probably, then I can dump a load more of it in your inbox

I appreciate the time it takes to do this, I'd be delighted to return the favour!

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NotQuiteCockney · 15/11/2008 19:50

I don't mind doing critiques, it's interesting to me, and I think it helps my writing.

I am Not Really Myself today, though - will be better tomorrow (ok, I'm going out clubbing, but I should be ok - even better on Monday). Does the [] method of bracketing my comments work ok for you? I can take word docs or whatever.

You know about www.youwriteon.com, right? That's a critique-exchange sort of place. Don't know what it's like, though - I never seem to have work long enough to really work. They do short stories and chapters of books ...

I will ask you for critiques, though - DH does them, and a friend in the US, but someone willing to line-by-line type stuff would be very welcome.

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NotQuiteCockney · 16/11/2008 08:09

Greeny, I emailed you last night, just checking the email address I have still works, did it get through?

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Greensleeves · 16/11/2008 10:56

Hi NQC, the address is right, I've replied. Looking forward to reading some of your stuff...

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