Creative Writing Courses- worth the money?

[Hubblebubble100]

I am currently working on my second thriller but I am considering doing a writing course eg Faber and Faber or Curtis Brown. From research these two seem the best. They have a good number of authors who have got publishing deals.

Of course I will need to be selected but these courses cost £1800 to £4000. I am thinking of a £1800 one for 3 months but would need a loan off family. As a result, I am scared it will be a waste of money.

The other cheaper courses on offer at Faber and Curtis have no tutor feedback at all and no agent feedback either.

Does anyone have any experience or advice?

@Trickytroggle2 the manuscripts would have been through an agent and editor before acquisitions, but the books bought are about more than just the content (you only need to look at Richard Osman to realise that). The discussions bring in several departments who all chip in and help form the decision.

Editors would definitely mention if an author had done a CB or Faber course as it's another tick in their box to show they are commercially minded, they are likely to have industry contacts and a network, and might be a bit more savvy about how to run their social media.

The non-editorial departments, particularly publicity and marketing, but also sales, want to know that a prospective author has a bit of understanding about what will be required of them during publication.

It's by no means a guarantee, or even necessary, to have done writers' groups like this, but it does help in certain areas of the market like commercial crime fiction.

@IWorkinPublishing Thanks for your detailed reply. That does make sense. Do you think the short courses at CB would tick the box, or only the longer ones? From what I can see the module titles of the 3 generic short courses are largely the same as those for the long selective course - the main differences seem to be the amount of feedback, and sessions with agents and publishers.

And while you're here ! On a related note, are there other metrics mentioned in acquisition meetings that could help show you are commercially minded, know how to run social media etc, that don't require doing expensive courses?
e.g. I've seen some discussion on Twitter about whether agents/publishers require potential authors to have e.g. X number of followers on Twitter, presumably for the reasons you give above re: courses, although it seems to be a more common US practice.
Or e.g. attendance at e.g. Jericho Writers publishing info events?

I know there are efforts going on in publishing to try and remove barriers to entry to certain groups, low income being one, so it would be interesting to know if there is other background 'homework' you can do whilst writing a first novel to get yourself in the best position for getting accepted for publication (apart from getting your manuscript as good as you can) without having to attend expensive courses? Thanks!

@Trickytroggle2 I wouldn't get too caught up on needing to do a CW course, it was just that the original message asked which ones had a good reputation.

I'd say in the last 5 years a dozen or so authors who've I've worked with have done the Faber/CB courses (short or full).

Of those, maybe six have been bestsellers. So it's a high hit rate but not a guarantee of success.

The things that are impressive for debuts are those badges that show previous success - any creative writing prizes (eg from Mslexia), or published short stories.

As for social media, it is in practice useful but what is more helpful is some idea of who you are and where you sit in the market. So you need a narrative around yourself - whether that be 'the TV presenter and creator behind Pointless' or 'professional beekeeper and part time go-go dancer' or 'international human rights lawyer' or 'winner of the 2016 Hampshire cheese making championships' - give people a reason to warm to you and want to read what you've written. You don't need to be famous, but you need to give people a hook. Particularly in fiction, it's a crowded market so people want to know why you're special.

Read blurbs of authors whose work you want to emulate and you'll get an idea of what your personal brand should look like.

I’m about to start a CB short course on writing a psychological thriller, it’s only 6 weeks and was £210. I’ll report back. If I like the course I might apply for the longer selective one. I just need help with reshaping and structuring my plot twists.

I did a CB short course last year (‘Starting to write your novel’).
I wouldn’t recommend it. The course promised one piece of individual feedback but the feedback was so generic it could have been written for any piece of writing.
The course forum was dominated by gushing useless comments by 2 or 3 people.
The pluses were that the resources were quite useful and the tasks provided good prompts and the sense of accountability.

I’ve since joined Jericho Writers which has been great - lots of excellent resources and peer support. I’m now considering a course but the cost (£4.5k) is off-putting.

Has anybody got any feedback on any of the Jericho courses? It would be much appreciated, if so.

@Diadora30 Thank you, please do give your feedback. I was interested in that course with Erin Kelly, so would love your verdict on it.

@Hubblebubble100 Will do! Yeah there were a few that I was interested in, but that one really jumped out at me. I saw there was a romantic fiction course being taught by Jenny colgan. I loved her books growing up.

Am I the only one that hates the idea of peer feedback? It’s what puts me off most programmes. I think maybe it’s because I want advice from experts

The Curtis brown courses offer scholarships so why not apply for one? Then you might not need to pay?

Peer feedback on a selective course is gold. Your book hopefully will be going out into the world so you need to know what people will like/miss/need clarity on. Far better now than on Amazon reviews.

Has anyone any feedback on the ICE Short Story course? Sounds interesting but rather expensive:
www.ice.cam.ac.uk/course/creative-writing-introduction-short-story-writing-13

I’m about to enter the second week of my CBC course. It is really enjoyable. The modules are broken down into weeks with each week opening on a fixed date. The first week was about premise and hooks, and this week is ‘show don’t tell’. It’s really manageable and the resources and forum are engaging.

Thanks @Diadora30 for that update. Is it all peer review at the moment?

I did the CBC Psychological thriller course in 2020 and i found it so useful. there was so much information for me to get on with. The group/peer feedback part wasn't the best. Too many voices and a bit cliquey. For me it was the resources and the reading lists which i still refer to today. For 200 quid I learnt loads. Also did the beginning novel one which I loved too.

Join a writers' group. There will be a writer in residence

And a group of aspiring writers'. You will be amazed at how much you learn simply by critiquing one another's work. Groups usually meet in local libraries and are free of charge.

@sammyscrounge - I so agree. The critiquing is invaluable. I found a writersgroup via twitter I am now exchanging work with two crime/thriller writers - both in Europe - and their feedback is excellent.
@Hubblebubble100 Follow published writers on twitter, it's a great and supportive community and opportunities for mentoring and groups always come up. it's fantastic.

I am also on the online 8 month Faber course - the quality of feedback is mixed and voluntary - no one has to feedback on anyone, which I think is bad) For me, so far the group I found on twitter is better as it is my genre.
I have a friend who did the 4k Faber in person course a couple of years ago - she found it excellent and got a top Curtis Brown agent from it. She has not yet finished her book though. She is still friends with the group. When we talked about it, it seems on average about 2 or 3 writers per group of 15 get something concrete off the back of the course right away. Obviously this doesn't take into account those who get deals/agents years later.

So far, it seems from doing the online Faber course that the 4k in person one has better publishing results than the Faber online one.

Hope that helps.

The best value course, in my opinion, is the Self Edit Your Novel course offered by Jericho Writers. There's plenty of tutor input and peer review and a pretty decent percentage of people who do the course end up being published. I think it costs around £600. I did it a few years back and learned tons.

You could see if you can find one at a college near you for starters