Indie authors of Mumsnet, come talk to me...

[CakeRage]

Have you self-published? It’s something I’m looking at at the mo and I’d really love to hear more from people who’ve done it. I follow the 20booksto50k FB group which someone on here recommended to me in my agent thread and over the last few months I’ve become captivated by the stories on there.

I’m 5 months into querying agents and honestly I’m hating it. It’s stripping everything I love out of the writing process, and it’s making me doubt myself and my work to the point where I’m about to give up. The more I think about it, and the more I read, the more I want to just f it all off and publish my own books.

I’m not in it for the big time, or to win awards, or to hob nob with the rich and famous. When I really think about it, all that’s important to me is that I’m writing the kind of books I want to read, and that I have creative control over all of it.

Have you done it? Are you happy with your decision. Are there any pitfalls I might not have thought about? And how do you deal with people being snobby about the whole indie game?

Get together with a few like minded authors, an editor and other people with publishing/selling experience who want to break free from the machine, and start a new company which seeks to publish your kind of books, aimed at your kind of market.

I would be interested to join in maybe

fifty that sounds like a million times more hassle than self publishing!

My thinking is that it would be an ongoing thing. A small publishing house with expertise in selling to book shops and the like, so making a decent profit - but not a killing - fair trade recompense for writers - and publishing literary fiction aimed at mature intelligent women. Authors would have more creative control than average.

I think it would be fun.

I might have lost the plot though.

Interesting idea, fiftygrades. I was just talking to one of my friends today and she said she knew someone who started his own small publishing company, first to print his own work, and later to take on authors in a similar genre. He’s doing fairly well out of it, so the idea definitely has legs!

Something else that could work and would be less of a leap is to create a collective of authors who would appeal to similar readers. They would all publish their work independently but join forces to market to readers and recommend each other so they have a greater reach than going it alone, as well as literally teaming up to co-author books or release anthologies of stories. I’ve seen it done with artists and it works very well, and I imagine it would work even better with books - the average person is not so likely to commission 5 separate pieces of art, but they would definitely read 5 different books.

I’m sure this must already be happening somewhere, now that I’m thinking more about it!

OP that happens all the time with indie publishers on Twitter, or self published ones. I no longer go to events because it’s all just back scratching and i think I’ve built up enough goodwill to stay home and avoid warm wine and canapés 😁

fifty I apologise if that sounded rude. I just thought it was more a response to someone who wanted to set up a publisher rather than self publish.

Oh lol, I need to immerse myself in the scene more.

This is like the time I thought I’d invented timed cat feeders!

“This is like the time I thought I’d invented timed cat feeders”

This is a column I would love to read 😂

rosa Not at all rude, don't worry! The more I look into how things are done the more I think, well, the same things could be achieved differently, such as how books are marketed - so trad but with a difference.

OP, interesting that it has been done before!

joining thread to read replies...

Yes I do this now.

I have a group of 5 who I do anthologies with, we are working on a co-write next year. We proofread each others work, help with plotting, covers, teasers and marketing, keywords etc.

I'm then also in a slack team with about 10 other authors in the same genre and between us we have about 150k newsletter reach (obv there will be some crossover). We also help each other with release parties, sharing social media, we have a shared page which is generic (example: Book Boyfriends on Kindle Unlimited) where we can run ads for 'the ten hottest releases in X genre of the summer 🔥"

I honestly don't know what a trad pub does that you can't do yourself with a bit of gumption and effort (other than getting you in shops). Almost every indy I've ever reached out to has bent over backwards to help me, offered to let me post in their dedicated reader groups, asked if I'd like a mention in their newsletter etc, given me advice or experiences. We're mostly all pretty aware that a rising tide lifts all ships, and the more people we convert to reading our genre the better it is for all of us.

So go and make some author friends lol. Do it right now. 🤣

Question: how often do most indie writers release a new book? I heard some write in a series and a release a book every 3 months to maximise interest?

@Hellomatey001 3 months would be pretty slow going for most indies I know (who are successful and supporting themselves).

I personally did every 6 weeks when I was still working full time, now I quit the day job I have a release at least every month. I'd say this was about normal for genre fic indie writers.

I know people who write and release faster than this but they split it across two pen names as a lot of readers believe the myth that it takes 6 months to write a good book.

themental - that was exactly the kind of thing I was imagining, haha. I should invent more stuff

How did you make your author friends? Are they local to you or do you do everything remotely? I’d love to get in with people who have a similar outlook to me but don’t really know where to start.

I’ve definitely decided to go for it. I’m withdrawing my MS from submission with agents and having another quick read through before I start formatting for publication. I just have a couple of things I’m not sure about. Is it best to release immediately or pick a date in the future so you can do pre-orders and market in the run up to release?

I’m also not sure whether to use my name or a pen name?

(Sorry for the bazillion questions)

Thanks themental!

Also to add to the bazillion questions...are the book lengths 75k to 100k or shorter?

@Hellomatey001 my books are between 50-75k, although the one I'm working on now (standalone) will likely get near 100k which would probably be the max both for me and for the readers.

@CakeRage that's brilliant! Regarding authors I started out in some of the genre specific spin offs of the main group, and reached out to a couple. Then it just sort of spiralled by knowing people who know people etc. Generally everyone is pretty friendly and I get the occasional PM on FB or Insta asking questions or advice I'm always happy to oblige, and that's generally the reception I've add from people too. I just comment on other authors posts with gifs or whatever and spark up friendships that way (My FB is my pen name).

Regarding pre-order or live release people have split opinions on this but I would say pre-orders are useful if you're either a BIG name, or if it's for the second book in a series (so you can link to it in the back of book 1). For a first release I wouldn't do a pre-order because if you don't get many, it can kill your rank on release day. What I would do though is create an author profile on Goodreads, and then create the book there so that you can promote it and people can start adding it to their 'to be read' list if it takes their fancy. You just need a cover and a blurb, no ISBN or ASIN or even a release date.

If you need a hand with formatting I have Vellum which creates the most beautiful ebooks. It's pricey but worth it if you want a professional product and it literally takes 5 minutes. If you don't want to make the commitment just yet then PM me and I'd be happy to format it for you.

And good luck with the start of your journey

Sorry missed your name question! I'd definitely go for pen name, you don't even need to keep it unidentifiable (I don't, I have my own face and pictures of my life/ family) but it's the security of knowing that I can change it again at any time and start fresh if I want to change direction (or I release a book that ruins my career hahaha).

Go for something simple but has a ring to it and is easily memorable. Also I'd veer away from initials (I know, I know, JK and E.L etc) but they're the exception to the rule lol 😆

Sorry themental you have been so helpful I have more to ask.

Does your output as an indie author have to increase eg have 6 books on the market, each generating £300 per month that would give you an income of £1800? Would this be the type of thinking you have to adopt and in order to do this, you must have enough books under your belt?

I am a slow writer and thinking if I wanted to self publish I would need to increase my output and not expect one book to be a huge seller, but expect my books to tick along and generate enough income collectively for me to live off. Is this correct?

@Hellomatey001 obviously everything I say is either opinions or experiences so your milage may vary!

But what you'll usually see is a spike in earnings after release (per graph below, this is my book that released this month) and then things will tail off.

After the 30 day mark is where you will lose your spot in the "hot new releases" for each category you've selected, and many authors call this the 30 day cliff.

However some books are what we call "sticky" in that they've achieved a good enough rank to make it into the main category (not the HNR) so their cliff is usually longer.

After the cliff is when things generally tend to settle down (at least that's been my experience). Book 1 published in April makes me a steady 2 figures a day. Book 2 (June) day in day out gives me between £4-7. Doesn't sound like much but £7 x 30 days is still £200. And it all adds up. Book 3 has been very sticky and I've not had a day below 3 figures yet. But I'm not quite sure if that's fallen off the cliffs edge yet.

So you don't have to write fast. There are 2 reasons people do write fast
▪️the first being basic maths. If you have 20 books each making roughly £7 a day, that's an income of £50k a year, which I'm sure most folks in the UK (except maybe London) would call a pretty good income -- especially because you're still making money even when you have a sick day, or a holiday, or a school play.
▪️the second reason to write fast is that nothing sells the last book like writing the next book. Now I'm getting more reviews on goodreads it's quite common for them to say stuff like "this was a new author for me but I love her writing style and I'm off to devour her other works". If you don't want to be constantly promoting ALL of your books ALL the time then the best way to build residual income is to give those readers someplace else to go after they enjoy your book.

So there are good reasons to write fast, but that doesn't mean you can't be successful if you don't write fast. You're journey to success might be slower than someone putting out 2 books a month, or it might be faster, there are literally 1000 variables.

What I can tell you though is that I thought I was a slow writer, I did a couple of short stories to get a feel for publishing and I remember when 5k felt like an absolute slog and took me over a week. Now I can do 5k in a day relatively easy. My first book took 6 weeks around a full time job, and my 5th book (70k) took 12 days start to finish, in the summer holidays, with 4 kids at home.

It's kinda like running, the more you do it the further you can go. You'll get to the point where you stop caring and agonising about the marks on the page, the commas, etc and you'll see it's just a way of putting a story into someones head.

Sorry this was loooooong

Thank you themental, that reply was so so helpful!

I started self publishing in 2013 and no regrets - i enjoy creative control. I'm writing the books i want to live on after me and thats what matters. In all honesty, the 'deals' offered by trad publishing seem shit in comparison when everythings taken into account. I'm also free to genre-hop, which maybe harms my income, but is important to me.

When i am promoting, i can make a few hundred a month. Ive done no promotion for months now though and income has dropped to virtually zilch. However, i still have readers asking for more so confident now iv made the decision to concentrate fully on writing in my life, it will come back!

Snobbery doesnt matter - when they offer me something good i'll care about their opinion, until then its all about the readers.

I have known people set up indie collectives to publish each other/new authors. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. You need to be very organised and love spreadsheets if you are going to do anthologies and pay royalty shares. Some people get round this by inviting contributions to an anthology where all the profits go to a favoured charity: this is all very well but not so good for authors who would like to earn an income from their writing.

Being in groups and cross-promoting is useful, though. But remember you have to plug other people as much as you want them to plug you (authors get very snippy about people whose only online interaction is 'buy MY book'.)

This is such an interesting thread, thank you.

I have some work ready ish, but had previously wanted to go the traditional route. I'm now thinking that's pointless actually...

But anyway, I was wondering if that group, or anything similar, is around on a platform other than Facebook? Thanks.

Apologies if this is a really stupid question

I'm sitting down this afternoon to figure out the self publishing thing

Companies advertising as helping you self publish....are most people using those?

I've heard that Joanna Penn does good podcasts but I was hoping for a written guide. I have no idea which guides are good and which are talking rubbish so any recommendations would be great, thank you.

@AutumnRose1

I've never used a company and I don't know anyone who has. I would be really wary of going through someone else as there could be fees and there's is quite a lot of sharks in this business.

I'm assuming you're not on Facebook but I've really not found anything that comes even close to the wealth of free information on the 20books group.

If I was you I'd maybe create a pen name account purely just to join that group and use the FAQ document to guide you (you don't even need to do anything else with facebook if you don't like it, but it will really help in explaining things)

There are companies who will help with self-publishing; some offer formatting and cover design, some offer editing/proofing etc. Some of them are a bit scammy and some are well-meaning but basically crap ('editors' who can't spell or punctuate; cover designers from the round-ended scissors and crayons school of art). If you're thinking of buying in such services (and, TBH, unless you are really good at design, DO NOT design your own covers. They will look shit and kipper your chances.) either ask fellow authors whose work you know and admire who they use, or have a good look at other books any company you are investigating has produced.
If you reckon you can handle the editing and formatting yourself but have no design chops, your best bet is a premade cover. Sites like this one offer a perfectly adequate selection across various genres. You just pick the one you think is most suitable and type in your own title, pen-name etc.

And, yes, you can get design and editing work done by going on Fiverr, but it is frankly unethical to use that fucking site, and you will get work that is worth exactly what you paid for it.