How do you stay sane while querying agents?

[CakeRage]

I finished my first book earlier this year (after saying for years I was going to write it), and started submitting to agents 3 weeks ago.

I’ve had a couple of replies, both really encouraging, but ultimately both rejections, and I feel like I’m losing my marbles. How do you keep it together while waiting? Not sure I can take the emotional rollercoaster

The first agent replied within hours to ask for the full manuscript, emailed again the following day to say she was halfway through and absolutely blown away by it, then a few days later to say she did love it, but thought it needed a few changes making. I revised the whole thing (10,000 extra words of work), then she replied just to say it wasn’t working, and she wouldn’t be taking it further.

To be honest I’ve been pretty gutted by it. How do you stop the little judgy voice in your head which tells you you were an idiot for getting your hopes up?

The second agent replied to say she was really impressed by my writing, but didn’t feel I was a good fit for her list at the moment, and recommended another agent (different agency) who she thought would like it. I handled that one much better, even though I guess it was more of an abrupt no.

Please tell me how you cope with this stage - or come commiserate with me at its horribleness!

(Sorry for my crazed rambling - feeling all my feelings this week!)

LurkingElle Glad you have delurked!

My view, for what it's worth (I'm not exactly having great success at the moment, so take my advice with caution).

You've mentioned making changes - do you have any specific changes in mind? How long is it since you read your manuscript right through?

5 fulls says to me your submission material is great. Would it be worth asking a beta-reader to look at it specifically to pinpoint areas of the full that might fall short of your submission? Have you looked at any sub-plots or lesser characters who don't feature in your synopsis - do they need to be stronger?

Thank you for your reply @Preparing.
I don’t have any specific changes in mind. Have had two quite small and quite general pieces of feedback from agents, which seemed to contradict each other. I think from what they said that it’s my plot rather than my writing which is the problem but because they said different things I’m not sure whether changing the plot would improve it or perhaps just make it different but no better, or even worse... Given that two well-respected agents disliked different things...
And similarly I always wonder whether if using beta readers it would be necessary to have several readers to get more of a consensus view as otherwise changes might be made just to suit only one person’s taste?

I think the merit of beta readers is mainly that they are a fresh pair of eyes and might spot a flaw or possible improvement that you have missed through over-familiarity with the text, but when it's mentioned you see it as obvious - rather than using them as a way of making subjective changes that you don't necessarily agree with, IYSWIM.

While you are waiting for the six you've just queried to come back, you could experiment with some changes - perhaps in two versions, if you have conflicting advice from agents. You can always revert to the existing MS if you don't feel the changes improve your novel.

Hi no longer lurking Elle! Sounds like you’re off to a great start, in any case. I don’t think it was stupid to send out more submissions without changes. You obviously have something good going on with 5 full requests, so it might be that all you need to do is stumble across an agent who thinks your MS is amazing, or who knows what changes you need to make to get it there. It’s so subjective.

I had 6 ‘beta readers’ (really just the friends I could most trust to be brutally honest), and if just one or two had a niggle I decided whether or not to change it, whereas if 3 or more picked up on the same thing I knew it had to change. And they picked up on all sorts - continuity, someone doing something out of character, or just something that I wouldn’t even have thought of as a problem, like not knowing about a festival that with my Catholic upbringing, I took for granted was common knowledge. The most useful thing that I did, though, was get them all in a room together to discuss it, with me there. I learned all sorts about how they saw my characters and how they felt at different points of the plot. It wasn’t all ‘this is wrong’, there was an equal amount of ‘I love this bit, more of that, please’, and I think my story is stronger for having done it.

And I do put on queries that my full MS is currently with two other agents, but I put it right at the end just as a short note so they have the full story. They usually want to know if you’ve had any other interest so I just see it as a way of being transparent. Not that it’s been a great help to me, of course!

6 beta readers is a very good idea, for a majority view. I haven’t shown my ms to a single person I know yet because am too embarrassed but I think I should just get over the embarrassment!
My issue with making changes is that I don’t think small changes will help that much, given how agents have been so positive about the opening chapters but then not interested in the whole ms; I think that how the plot plays out needs to be changed in a big way, and maybe the later chapters need to be completely re-written, which realistically would take months of writing time. And if an agent or editor gave me specific advice on that I’d be very very happy to invest the time, but without any guarantee that I’m setting off in the right direction I feel as though there’s a good chance that I’d be wasting that time and maybe I should just spend the time on Book 2...
Glad @CakeRage that you tell them that two agents have the full!

Oh I hear you on showing other people! The first time was the hardest - I felt like I was tearing my own heart out and handing it over to be scrutinised - but I’ve found it easier and easier every time. The worst part was when my parents asked to read it and I had a sudden panic about them reading the sex scenes. Cringe!

I just thought, though, I have written this book to be read. If this is what it being read feels like then I need to suck it up! And it’s not as bad as you expect, promise!

Parents reading sex scenes!!! 😬 😬 😬
No sex scenes in mine but there is some snogging - people I know reading those scenes would be bad enough!!
V impressed by your bravery. There’s a HUGE difference between strangers and family and friends reading your writing.

I just had a request for a full (from a big agent -- the kind with two assistants ) almost exactly eight weeks after sending it out...?

And I left out all the sex scenes in mine, having decided this was NOT my forte...

Lol! My sex scenes are very tasteful (so says my mum, hahaha).

Congrats on your full Fancified! It must feel especially sweet after all that time. Fingers crossed they get back to you soon

Exciting Fancified. Especially after 8 weeks! And from big agent. Fingers crossed...

Good to know your mother thinks your sex scenes are tasteful Cake. Think I might have to avoid my mother for a couple of years if she read one of mine!!

Fancified congratulations, that is great news!

Elle I'm struggling with the same issue at the moment. Two of my three full requests were rejected with no feedback and the other one has been out for ages. I've decided that I will make some changes to the manuscript, specifically cutting out one chapter which slows down the plot and doesn't add much to compensate, but that's because after consideration I think it will improve the book. That said, I don't think doing it earlier would have changed anyone's decision - if it came down to one chapter, they could have just asked me to cut it or alter it.

So if you're genuinely certain you can improve your book with changes then do it but if you're not sure I'd leave it. If you were getting the same feedback from everyone then obviously you'd pay attention but if the feedback is contradictory you may be better off just doing a few more submissions. BTW I always mention if other people have the full.

Everything's gone very quiet with me, even the trickle of rejections has stopped. It's like when a beekeeper smokes the hives so the bees will fall asleep. I expect the agents are all on holiday, wish I was too!

Also, the chapter I'm cutting out is the one with the most sex in it, which could be another reason why I don't have confidence in it.

My parents have no idea my book exists and won't be enlightened unless I find a publisher!

Yes Norma, my parents are about the last people I’d tell - even worse than telling my teenage son!!

Totally agree that always good to improve a manuscript by removing a chapter/ tweaking things etc BUT if an agent falls in love with it enough to make an offer those small things probably won’t matter because it’s probably the concept, plot and voice that make the biggest impact.

Although you never know - maybe one tweak or removed chapter will take the manuscript from very good to amazing and the offers will come flooding in...

Mine’s commercial women’s fiction - think I’m going to submit directly to an e-publisher and see what happens there - don’t think it can hurt - I know people say not to because once a publisher’s said no an agent wouldn’t be able to submit the same manuscript to them but I can’t imagine ever getting an agent so am happy to take that minuscule risk!

Great stuff Fancified!

I'm also struggling with the lack of feedback. I just (literally 2 minutes ago) got a rejection from an agency saying they're not confident they could find a publisher for my manuscript. That's all they said - I infer from that that it's not commercial enough and too niche, but it could be something else entirely...great email to get on a Friday afternoon!

At least we can all suffer together

Sorry to hear that Sickofphd - SO frustrating to get so little feedback. Obviously completely understandable that they don’t have time to give feedback when getting thousands of submissions a year BUT something concrete would be so nice, especially on a full.

I've been doing a lot of soul-searching this weekend and have come to the conclusion that I'm going to start seriously working on my next novel and devote my energy to it rather than the submission process. I haven't given up on my current work (I haven't done anywhere near as many submissions as others on this thread!) but I think the rejection will be much easier to deal with if I'm busy working on something else.

Anyone else starting to think along similar lines?

Definitely yes, Sickof! I’m thinking of challenging myself to write as much of book 2 as I can during the school holidays, so I can start seriously editing and cleaning it up in September. It seems to be the only way I can get anything done - just set myself an insane deadline and hold myself to it.

Plus from what I’ve read on here, it all goes a bit dead on the agent front during August, so it seems like a good distraction from that!

Do you have an idea for your second book?

I follow an agent on twitter who just tweeted last week that she is desperate for someone to submit a novel set in Ancient Greece to her...that is exactly what I’m writing but am only halfway through. I don’t want to rush it and not polish it enough before submitting but also feel like this is an opportunity which I don’t want to let pass either. I wonder how quickly I can write another 40,000 words and edit at least the first three chapters into good enough shape!

CaptainBrickbeard Have you thought of contacting the agent anyway - it might get you to the top of her reading pile once the full manuscript is ready?

She’s very clear in her submission guidelines not to submit unless you have the full manuscript. I have two days off now whilst my children are at school and I’m going to write like crazy - I wrote the first half very quickly and then took a break and have now lost my grip on the book a bit so I need to fully immerse myself back into it. I have wanted to write a novel my whole life and never got past 3000 words before. Now I’m at 43,000 words and I have the rest planned out. It was my new year’s resolution to write a book and initially I felt like if I just finished one then it would be an amazing achievement. But now I feel like I’ve got something good - I’ve written half a novel that I know I would want to read at least! So I need to get that momentum back - seeing that tweet has hopefully given me a kick to get going again.

That's excellent CaptainBrickbeard, hopefully you can finish soon and submit to that agent - that sounds very promising.

How much have you done of Book 2 CakeRage? I have a whole heap of ideas for my second but I'm going to consciously make it more commercially minded/mainstream based on my experience submitting with book 1.

Yes Sick and Cake, definitely much better for sanity to be working on book two. After my first round of submissions in Jan/Feb I got going on my second book (got up to about 30,000 words) and was really enjoying that and managing not to obsess too much about the first one and the outcome of the submissions. Then I did my second round of submissions which meant a) I had no time to write (SO time-consuming tailoring each submission and then feels like such wasted time tracking down an interview with a particular agent and referring to their wish list etc when you discover that they have zero interest and you might as well have written Dear A.N. Agent!) so I’m no longer as ‘into’ book two and b) I am therefore back in a constant-email-refreshing-submission-misery state. So am now going to try to set a weekly word count target and blitz to the end of a first draft of book two.
Exciting that an agent wants what you’re writing, Captain - very good incentive to write as fast as possible.

Oh my god, I could cry with frustration today. I can’t figure out how to move my stupid characters from where they are right now to my next scene and instead of just moving on and writing the bit I know and leaving this transition to fix in the edit, I feel utterly stuck. I’ve written less than 1000 words today; I have one hour left before picking up my kids and the arsehole builders somewhere on my usually sleepy and silent estate have been blasting out the radio all day. I can’t close my windows and doors as is boiling but the relentless thudding of the bass line is destroying my brain. I feel like I am treading through treacle!

How do any of you ever get to the end of a novel???!!?

Ooh, good luck Captain! Sending you fast-writing vibes

Sickof - I’m up to chapter 2 of my second book and not making any great progress on it. I definitely need a rocket up my arse! I’m also coming at it from a different angle this time, though, trying to be more focused and commercial. Definitely needs to have a hook - I’m obsessed with hooks now!

I’m pretty happy with my idea, and I gave my elevator pitch to the agent who I revised and resubmitted book one to, and she said it sounded like a really fresh idea, so fingers crossed. I just need to get swept up in it somehow, the way I did with the last one