Book writing and courses. Oh god, what a fool I've been

[OhThisbloodyComputer]

I'm posting this as a sort of warning to others, to learn from my stupidity and avoid making the same mistake.

I'll start with this. Never try to write a book. People told me that and I didn't listen.

I thought I was different. I could handle it.

But soon I was hooked. And that proved to be a gateway drug to stronger stuff. Soon, I was spending more than I could afford on Courses. All kinds of people, who should know better, cater to this addiction. Night classes run by the local authority adult education, book agents - even publishers.

They give it cutesy names - like Thriller, Sci-Fi, BlockBuster - but it's horrible what it does to you.

I lost all dignity. But I was never going to give up until I hit rock bottom.

The real villains are the people who deal in this deadly trade, who cynically exploit your naivety even though they know they're wasting your life.

I can tell you more if you're interested. I don't want people to make the same mistakes I did.

I don't write just for the money but I do want to get paid for it.
Years ago an older and wiser writer told me 'no money, no words' and I've tried to adhere to that.

It fucks me off when I'm asked for hours of work for no remuneration. Production companies who want series outlines and a couple of episodes for nothing!

Recently a supermarket asked for a freebie to give away alongside my latest novel. Cheeky fuckers!

Thanks for all of these replies, it's very kind of you.

Sleepymama, I like your spirit and you are doing something you enjoy so - bear in mind I'm not qualified to give advice in any way, to anyone - I would advise you to keep going. If you enjoy it, you should of course be encouraged.

I have a theory - again, no evidence to back this up - that telling stories could be used to sell things. (Many adverts are mini stories)

If you write stories and want a ready made mass audience, for example, you could incorporate a story into the text of your eBay advert.

For example: "Headline: For sale: Popular item
Price: Bidding starts at 1p (or something ridiculously eye catching)

Text: "There's a story about this [popular item]."

[INSERT YOUR LABOUR OF LOVE THAT YOU WANT AN INSTANT MASS READERSHIP FOR]

You may have to give some popular item away for a bargain price, but at the same time you've bought a mass audience for your story.

People may even react to the story too.

Anyway, that's just an idea.

I was thinking that we need to be creative about how we market our work.

Yes, yes, I know, ridiculous idea.

OP I'm finding it hard to gauge your real feelings from your tone

But this "I have a theory - again, no evidence to back this up - that telling stories could be used to sell things. (Many adverts are mini stories)"

This is an entire platform already, I know a couple of (pen name) novelists who are running workshops for corporates on brand and storytelling. Probably make far more from the workshops than the books.

Lower folk such as myself work these ideas into their work. (Don't want to out myself talking about my job).

I'm sorry if I have the wrong end of the stick but I'm getting a sense of you thinking you won't get anywhere with your ideas or something like that, but if you're already thinking brand = storytelling then you're on a good track surely?

Why do you keep saying "ridiculous idea"?
Would you like to pay me for confidence coaching? No I'm not qualified but I do have the balls to suggest it

Yes some financial gain does help. I got a few small, but paid, fiction writing work recently and It's definitely motivated me when writing my novel. But money is not the sole reason, or the thought of publishing a novel. I would love my ideas to be communicated widely though, and that does fuel me somewhat. But ultimately I am writing to see the idea through - really craft something to fruition. Now that would feel like an accomplishment in itself for me

Also, critiques of your work by fellow students are an entirely legitimate way of getting feedback. Those on a, for example, SciFi course will be readers and lovers of the genre. They know what works. And, you can ignore advice but part of a course is learning from other students.

SlimThisTime

I think I like you.

What are you rates?

mrsK I agree that peer review can be helpful.

However, on a course you have little control over the quality of your peers. Plus they do tend to review short passages. So while you're getting line analysis, you're not getting a macro analysis.

And for me this is always the sticking point. How does good writing at line level become a readable/workable/publishable novel? Can it even work that way round ( as opposed to having a novel that you then polish at line/word level)?

OP,
I thought your opening post was really well written
and it made me chortle.

Dont give up. But, yes, Writing courses, like Counselling courses, are pyramid selling, in some cases..

@pinkingshears

thanks. that's very kind of you

yes, peer review can be helpful but there's no need to pay for it, lots of groups around. I did belong to a pub group once.

I'm always inclined to save money though.

OP I hope you find what you are looking for!

I don't write because I want to make money, I have a day job. I write because when I'm writing it's the closest thing to taking morphine I know. I actually get a high off it.

I also get grumpy if I don't get to write. I wrote as a teenager, then for a few years after first starting work I stopped. Then I rediscovered writing three years ago and my world has transformed.

But the first novel I'm now submitting has taken an unbelievable amount of work. I write nearly every day, after finishing my (hardcore) day job. 1 year of writing, 2 years of editing. I turn down social activities to write, I spend as much time as possible on my holidays writing. Working holidays, really.

And whilst money would be nice, I'm more driven to publish by the fact that people who have read my various pieces have said it's changed how they think, cheered them up on the worst possible day, given them hope etc...

Words are powerful.

Read if you enjoy it. Write if you enjoy it. I haven’t paid anything for courses, but I spent years just writing and I learned that way.

It took a long time, but I am now a published author with an AAA agent. I had no contacts whatsoever. It is possible, but I think it takes a lot of perseverence and somewhere along the line, a stroke of luck.

Good luck OP

Thank you OP for this illuminating thread and thank you GetAHairCutCarl for this:

They seem to dwell on good writing at line level over craft, when the point of a novel is the well crafted whole.

You put into words exactly what I knew I felt but until I saw it written down simply and clearly I had no way to explain even to myself why I found writing courses so unhelpful and just plain wrong for me.

The emphasis always seemed to be on sentence construction, nothing more. I wasn't there to learn to write a sentence (I learnt to write sentences at primary school), I was hoping for a bit of guidance on how to structure and write a well-crafted novel.

OP I hope you carry on writing - you hooked me.

I did a class in creative writing last year (evening class through local college) to a) learn a few more skills and b) to gain some social interaction and meet like minded people and I think I succeeded in both but I would think twice before spending a fortune on more intense writing courses, it certainly does seem like a money making enterprise for some. Perhaps another alternative in satisfying my second point, would be to join a local writing group (or start one up if there isn't one). I now belong to a small writing group; I'm not sure how useful it is from a critiquing point of view but I still enjoy meeting others who love to write and would probably join more groups if I had more time.

A lot of writing courses are basically useless. About the best outcome is someone who has the makings of an ok writer learns a few useful additional skills. They are no good to a potentially great writer as they will crush that person's individual voice (the teachers are generally mid-listers, if that, and can't see beyond the bog-standard tropes of creative writing). And some people, no matter how much they love the idea of Being A Writer, have no aptitude for it and (more importantly) nothing to say. Courses won't help them, either.

I don't think writing can be taught.

You learn from the ongoing process, the day in, day out engagement with words, characters, ideas, feelings, expressions.

But I think it's vital to read the best of contemporary literature (in whatever genre you favour).

I write because at last I've found what makes me truly happy. Who knows if I'll ever be published?!
I'm not focusing on that right now, simply the delight of writing.

I wrote my novel (have not yet submitted it) for me, it was never intended to be published but now I would like to publish it one way or another. I certainly don't see it as a waste of time...it was cathartic, allowed me to use my creative energy, kept my mind stimulated and provides a social outlet too - I belong to a writing group (no money involved). I do see what you mean - I think some people do cash in on it and I'm careful to avoid this. I did an evening class in creative writing but this was more of a social thing, I wasn't looking to become the next writing genius. I think it is about expectation and I've never had the expectation that I would suddenly become a fabulous writer.

I think it depends on what you're looking for . . . obviously. Writing adverts or witty copy is a job as previous posters have pointed out If you want to earn from your writing then journalism/marketing/PR are the most obvious fields to enter rather than trying to publish a novel. However, they all demand different skills and there are many of us who have been writing in those fields for decades.
As for courses, the standards vary enormously. I've attended some excellent courses and some poor ones. Now, I only ever attend ones by published authors.

+1 ReanimatedSGB. I finished one of the longer courses people here like to ask about, and it was certainly useless. The tutor was a 'midlist' novelist, but the real problem was that she clearly had no interest in reading student work or giving feedback. Some students on the course used to compare her feedback and wonder if she was actually drunk when she wrote it, it was that incoherent. The institution offering the course definitely knew but there was no change, and she is still teaching courses for them. This was not Faber Academy, by the way, but one of the other big ones. Money wasted.

I would discourage anyone from paying loads to take one of those courses. I agree with @GetAHaircutCarl that writing can't really be taught, and I think some of those expensive courses take advantage of people hoping that if they just pay enough they will learn.

As for the peer reviews, people should know just how much time this takes on those courses. I do think one would be better off putting all those hours each week into one's own writing.