Want to win a publishing contract?

[CariGransnet]

If you're an aspiring children's book writer, now's your chance to see your work in print. Over on Gransnet we're running a competition where first prize is a contract with independent publisher Bobaloo Books. Runners up will get signed books and feedback on their entries, with guidance on how to progress in their writing career. All the details are right here

Gransnet, could you ditch this comp on principle please? That they thought they could even try this, no amount of back tracking or recouching of terms that in some way implies the poor winner actually has a remote chance of being treated fairly, is going to change my mind. No sirree. Bloody appalling...

"We've spoken with Bobaloo Books and the winner will be offered a contract from them to publish their book subject to usual terms and negotiations"

Well, that's particularly vague and meaningless, isn't it? This publisher has already claimed that waiving of all moral rights is 'industry standard', so what they deem 'usual' is somewhat idiosyncratic

This is a disgrace. How, exactly, does giving up all your rights to an unknown, unproven publisher 'open doors' to a writer?

It's a sham.

The competition seems more about this publisher getting her vanity project off the ground than it does about nurturing new talent.

That's EXACTLY what this is.

Well, I await MNHQ's response to our concerns. I agree that the competition should be abandoned on principle.

Well, I await MNHQ's response to our concerns. I agree that the competition should be abandoned on principle

Well, from the earlier message it appears that if you don't like it you can bog off.

It's a very poor show. People will have entered this competition in good faith without realising that the terms are a disgrace. It appears that the publisher thinks throwing the term 'industry standard' around will fool people into thinking these are normal terms. They are not. Opinion on this on the SCBWI group is, as here, unanimous distaste.

The publisher in question has been asked about these terms twice (that I know of). If they were naive in setting them, they've had two opportunities to reconsider. So I guess we have to assume that they know exactly what they're taking from the winner, in return for very little

Still, publishing is a small world. I wouldn't want this mud sticking to me.

Still, publishing is a small world. I wouldn't want this mud sticking to me.

Quite - this shitshow has been spread pretty far around the agents and publishers I know. Don't think it's going to do her business any favours, what with the blatant attempt to get people to sign a terrible contract and the continued pretence that it's 'industry standard'. She should save herself the bad press and either change the contract or pull the contest.

Hi again, we're really sorry some of you feel this way about the competition. We genuinely believe it to be a great opportunity to get published - and perhaps avoid being left on the slush pile as some very worthwhile manuscripts sometimes are. We are confident Bobaloo Books will do the very best for the winner (including fair terms and conditions) - as you've said it's in their interests too that this is a success.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/2669112-The-Bobaloo-Books-Competition-Con?watched=1

I posted on Site Stuff for a bit more traffic, and to talk about whether this is acceptable on this site.

Not good at all.

Hi again, we're really sorry some of you feel this way about the competition

It's not just 'some' of us though, is it? It's every single person who is aware of the implications of the terms of the contract, both here and outside of this forum.

Not one person, either those employed in publishing or those considering submitting, has said 'yeah, sounds fair enough to me'.

And I'd still be interested to hear how granting full and irrevocable rights to your work to a relatively unknown publisher with no proven track record and no recognised market influence is a 'great opportunity'.

as you've said it's in their interests too that this is a success.

That's highly disingenuous. What was said was that this competition seem to be motivated entirely by the publisher's self-interest. That's not quite the same thing.

I work in publishing. I know many other people who work in publishing. Not one person I have spoken to about this (and I'm spreading the word far and wide) deems this a 'good opportunity'.

I bet Bobaloo were rubbing their hands with glee over this. How on earth did a small vanity publisher persuade MN/GN to sign up to this?

I'm assuming the owner of Bobaloo is a friend of someone at MN....

I'm assuming the owner of Bobaloo is a friend of someone at MN

Well, the company is pretty much unknown in the industry and has no proven record beyond publishing books written by the lady who founded the company (which I'd be interested to see sales figures for, given that the term 'royalties' was bandied around the first time the terms were questioned), so if you're wrong I'd love to know how the hell she slipped this one past them.

Maybe Derren Brown did her pitch for her

However negotiable the terms and conditions are, its hard to feel positive about the 'opportunity' to have your work taken over by someone with very little industry experience apart from a foray into self-publishing.

Clever of them to get the gransnet tie in - you can tell they have a marketing background - but it isn't really clear how much use they would be with editing, presentation and actually getting copies sold.

However negotiable the terms and conditions are,

They don't seem to be negotiable at all: by virtue of entering, you relinquish both copyright and your moral rights (which encompasses losing the right to be identified as the author of your own work) to a fledgling publishing house with no portfolio to speak of.

And we keep bring told this is 'a great opportunity'. It sure is - for Janet Kelly

We're sorry some of you feel this way

What kind of condescending claptrap is that? The issue isn't a feeling. It is a fact. Or rather, several facts, about the t&c (even now slightly amended) and the independent publisher concerned.

if the writer has an agent
No lit agent would let a client lose a novel (on average, what, a year's work, at least?) to a vanity publisher with no route to market with dodgy t&c.

If it was a famous publisher it might be worth putting up with some meaner than usual terms (though still not ones where you have to waive your moral rights). And if it was a genuine new outfit offering excellent terms so that the risk is offset by greater rewards should the book succeed, there might be a case for throwing in your lot with them, but the combination of the attempt at exploitation with the fact that they don't really seem to have anything to offer means that I can't see why anyone would go for this.

Oh help! Oh no! It's a Bobalo!

If it was a famous publisher it might be worth putting up with some meaner than usual terms (though still not ones where you have to waive your moral rights)

I'm inclined to agree. Precisely what someone who has self-published three books (sales figures unknown) can bring to the table that mitigates such one-sided terms is beyond me (aside from the signed copies of one of the aforementioned self-published books that she's including as part of the prize).

Got to be worth a try right?

This is like banging your head against a wall.

The most disingenuous apology is the one that implies the other person is at fault - 'sorry it made you feel that way'. Urgh.

Agree with all of the above. This isn't a prize. It's a desperate attempt to appear well-established and reputable whilst vastly underestimating the intelligence of a target market, and then refusing to admit wrongdoing.

I mean if I set up a website, start flogging 'CommunistLegoBloc's Guide to Nervous Earwigs' and its two self-published sequels, can I get a deal with Mumsnet and try and nab the moral rights to whatever I judge to be the Next Big Thing?

Address the concerns properly and stop insulting our intelligence.

Got to be worth a try right?

Absolutely

Unfortunately I have nothing to do with commissioning - I only handle manuscripts once they're further along in the production process.

The most disingenuous apology is the one that implies the other person is at fault - 'sorry it made you feel that way'

Quite. The only people who think this is a 'great opportunity' are GN & Bobaloo Books.

The rest of us can't ALL be wrong. The other authors and publishing professionals who have expressed their disdain for this can't ALL be wrong.

And yet apparently we are all wrong. It's a 'great oportunity'. Keep saying it. 'Great opportunity'. Sorry that 98% of you can't see that

Shakey, thinking on this further, if you're serious about pursuing children's writing, you could do a lot worse than joining the SCBWI. There's a lot of support and advice available, including local meetings/critique sessions.

Shakey, honestly, if you're ready to submit to agents, submit to agents. You don't need permission or special connections, no matter what people say. Just suss out who might represent your kind of thing and look on their website for instructions.