Anyone shocked at Ireland being one of the most obese countries in Europe?

[Ethela]

https://brilliantmaps.com/obesity-rates-usa-v-europe/?fbclid=IwY2xjawJngKxleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHnvR7oe_6LYbf4fcbzHl_BeAzJ8ePD0JuJAq5c3InyOEkk-pw539X2tyaeE4_aem_pxpU1_f0YknI4uA62X2TNQ

Its interesting that the US states with less obese people are the wealthier states whilst in Europe this pattern doesnt appear to be the case - but maybe if you dug into European country data you could see that wealthier people where slimmer.

I just came back from a week at a bnb in a small rural village. They still had a traditional feel. Bakery that supplied the village, veg shop, butchers, fish shop, household goods shop, pharmacy and a patisserie with a small supermarket for everything else.

The supermarket stocked mainly Italian brands and very little UPF. It was lovely to get a few days worth of food and fresh bread each day but I couldn't do that at home with working long hours. I would love this lifestyle but it's just not possible.

Most local people were slim and healthy looking the only overweight and obese people we saw were tourists.

I think upper middle class in Ireland are slimmer @Ethela
Just on observation- no data to back it up.

I'll tell you who is slimmer : migrants from Eastern Europe. You can spot them a mile off. But I guess their farming will become more industrialised soon enough? My grandad grew his own vegetable even when we lived in Dublin. I remember the young trendy woman next door saying ' isn't he great?' But you could tell she really meant ' isn't he a daft culchie?'
What's daft is us importing veg from the UK or Holland. The smart clowns.

Interesting then that from the map the Eastern Europeans have the highest obesity rates within their own countries - maybe its only the skinny and motivated that emigrate?

I think nobody walks anywhere so maybe they don't get enough exercise? I'd imagine it might be slightly higher in Ireland than England as less people in cities drive? France are a bunch of skinny Minnies? They must be lying as I've seen plenty of fat people in France. Maybe not morbidly obese I guess.

Yet that is interesting. All the Eastern Europeans I know are very into healthy food, exercise and are into their kids excelling in sports.

I am not surprised about Ireland and levels of grooming have also plummeted. The amount of people going around making zero effort is shocking

I saw a video of an old hurling match, from the 1960s, recently, and the players looked decidedly scrawny!
And these were tough sportsmen, most of whom also did some kind of manual labour, and who would have eaten 'well' to keep their strength up - probably washed down with a couple of pints of milk straight out of the bottle!

Of course they also weren't doing al the gym work sportspeople do these days to 'bulk up'. But basically there wasn't a spare scrap on them, and they looked very very skinny by today's standards.

People also didn't have much money in the 1960s, so even if there had been McDonalds and curries and Deliveroo back then, nobody could have afforded them.

I'm always struck by how expensive unhealthy food is -how can people afford living on ready meals and takeaways?

Basic food is so much cheaper, though I keep hearing 'I can't afford all that healthy stuff!' or my favourite 'I can't afford to buy organic food!' even when nobody has suggest buying organic food at all, just food that isn't processed.🙄

There's a video about road bowling on YouTube @MarieDeGournay . 1960s I'd say. All the lads are so skinny! And lots are wearing suits iirc.

A lot of the old hurling/gaelic football matches show the players smoking when collecting the trophies. You wouldn't see that nowadays.

Training nowadays even at club level is very professional with the amount science involved in fitness, psychology and diet. I've seen the level of detail that went into my son's diet such as measuring protein and all sorts of info being tracked and analysed, completely different from long ago.

I’ve lived in France for 20 years. Obesity is rising especially among certain groups (poorer, immigrants), but it’s not common. When we go back to the UK it’s always a shock to see how unhealthy people look, and so many fat kids.

French people are generally quite conservative and mostly adhere to the strict social rules about behaviour, including eating. Portions are small but higher quality, desserts in particular. I’m a bit horrified in the UK at the huge slabs of cake, piles of ice cream / sauce etc that are served in pubs and restaurants.

Obesity is not ignored for the sake of someone’s feelings here. French people tend to be quite direct, and doctors, teachers, parents, school nurses etc will very readily point out when a child is overweight and tell you what needs to be done to address it. There’s a lot of social pressure to be slim, the whole ‘love your body at any size’ thing does not exist. In fact, ignoring weight gain and pretending it’s all fine would not be seen as doing someone a kindness here - and I rather agree with that.

I completely agree. I have a good friend who is overweight and it’s all around her middle. She’s had a few health issues (stress and lifestyle are factors) but at no point did any doctor mention weight and she was in hospital for 4 nights. Menopause was mentioned , she was given statins and an inhaler but not one doctor, from her GP to various consultants, advised her to lose weight and do some exercise. I found that completely bizarre.
Why are we normalising unhealthy behaviours

I recognise that from my years living in France.

French children eat smaller portions of whatever the grown-ups are having, and my French friends are shocked when they see parents pushing a plate of high salt/sugar/fat food, usually involving chips and nothing green, in front of their children 'because it's the only thing they'll eat', while eating something fancy themselves.

They know that children will eat anything and everything if that's how they're brought up, and they are shocked to see children being fed food that the parents know is bad for them, apparently 'so mealtime doesn't turn into a battleground' - I've never seen a French mealtime turn into a battleground!

It would be sad if French society imported bad eating habits, eating well is something they've been good at for a long time

I am surprised the UK is classed as less obese. I live in England and was quite surprised by the number of larger adults and kids where I am living now - I am quite overweight so I actually found I was less embarrassed about my weight here. When I lived in a UK city it wasn’t as apparent. There is obesity where my mum lives back in Ireland but not on the same scale - there are certainly more morbidly obese where I am now, almost everyone I know back home is gym mad! Also when I’ve been out with my toddler in Ireland vs UK the snacks in the UK people bring out for kids are more heavily UPS foods because they are more plentiful here and a bit cheaper than Ireland - there’s more banana and peanut butter on crackers for toddlers in Ireland and more baby crisps and bars here. I had to stop going to a particular baby group with my then 2 year old because adults were handing out chocolate and adult crisps to the toddlers without asking if it was okay. I wonder if certain regions of the UK bring the levels down? We are relatively rural here.

I also wonder how they track these things - in UK hospitals I am regularly weighed - I was not regularly weighed in Ireland so are the figures definitely accurate. Also if they are using bmi natural bone structure and also muscles would come into play - my toddler is technically in the 90+ percentile for weight (75th for height) as she has large heavy bones, weighs a ton but is skinny. Doctor said the way they track bmi is wrong and said my daughter is the perfect weight for her frame. My partner who has a big frame with big bones would technically fall into overweight bmi but it’s just his natural build, he has no excess fat.

BMI doesn’t take into account variations in bone weight and muscle. French and Italian people naturally have small frames (they also have much better diets with lower UPFs I know) but someone with the average French bone structure versus the avergae Irish bone structure with the same percentage of body fat would actually weigh less and have a lower bmi than the Irish person (just an example as I know the French are also far thinner on average than the Irish). I know a lot of gym bunnies at home that are overweight according to bmi but it’s muscle. A fertility expert with the nhs said she had to turn down couples where then men lifted weights because they technically fell into an obese bmi - she said she had to turn down a ripped firefighter. I am not making excuses as I know there is an obesity crisis but I don’t think it’s as high as almost 1 in 3!

It would be interesting to see a chart of percentage of people per country suffering from weight related conditions! Also would be interesting to see the charts in a year or two - /wegovy is much more expensive and harder to get in Ireland so will that see the UK get lower down the obesity scale?

Ireland is a very obsegenic society. It's not set up to support healthy living really.
Houses have been thrown up anywhere with no thought to safe pedestrian access for anything. Pedestrians and cyclists are not prioritised on our roads. It's often unsafe for children to walk or cycle to school. It's not even safe for adults! Public transport is terrible (especially where I live, big rural town, replicated all over the country). We don't need planning because you can drive everywhere.
Schools are poorly resourced and PE laughably so. We don't have any council funded gym or pool here; they're all private. Apart from soccer or GAA sports are expensive, and you'll never encounter any of them in school. Other activities such as dance don't exist (I'm leaving out Irish dancing).
Medical check ups don't seem to happen in school anymore. I'm 50 and remember the HSE visiting at key stages to check out height, weight, look at our spine etc. this doesn't happen anymore. GP care is not free; I and many like me put off going to the GP unless a limb is hanging off. And the GPs are overworked; they just deal with the issue in front of them, instead of a more holistic approach. They don't have time for anything else.
We have developed a culture where two incomes are needed, most people commute, children in care, people are horrendously caught for time.
Food is very expensive here. Electricity costs are the highest in Europe. We have a sizeable population officially homeless and living in accommodation where cooking is not possible.
People say cooking from scratch is cheaper; yes, if you have the time, cooking costs and also the investment initially to buy cuts of meat and veg that you can access reasonably by way of transport. Many people don't (because of how our society is organised), they don't have the knowledge, they're stressed, time poor so they just reach for the easy option advertised and available in every local shop.
We could have followed a European development ethos but we went with an American. We created a society set up for obesity.

but at no point did any doctor mention weight
Well they are meant to. I work on a HSE funded programme and they have a promotion called make every contact count. You are meant to talk about any issues such as weight, alcohol, addiction, smoking etc and how you can support them or refer them to programmes that can help with it. They have implemented loads of training on how to tackle these sensitive issues with patients so if people are not doing that it is on them, the HSE have been pushing this for years

@YourOnMute where in the country are you? I am in Dublin and there are many council funded leisure centres. Each council also has a sports department which funds free exercise classes in the community targeted at different age groups. The adult education service also funds fitness classes. There are park runs In every park, free couch to 5k classes, walking groups etc. Healthy Food Made easy classes, smoking cessation classes, free stress relief courses. I think what you are describing is from 20 years ago, things have changed a lot

Maybe in Dublin, but there are no council gyms here. There is one 40 minutes drive away. Things might have changed a lot in the last 20 years in Dublin, but not in large parts of rural Ireland (I'm in the West).

My Irish nanna served up huge portions of food, lots of suet puds, butter, bacon fried in butter, copious sandwiches, home made cake. Bottles of stout and Guinness. She, her husband & her offspring were obese apart from mum who had to stay slim for her job. Nanna couldn't be doing with mean English portions as she called them. I've spoken to other Irish/Irish heritage freinds & they say the same. I definitely love mountains of grub. Of course this is just a generalisation and there are slim Irish people around.

I know someone who left the GP practice she was with because a GP
( not her usual one who had just retired ) dared to suggest she lose weight.
She thought he was very rude and was very very cross about it.
She had a heart attack within a year.
One of the reasons a relative of mine changed GP was because she suggested he lose weight.
He didn’t and subsequently had a heart attack and quadruple bypass.

One word - screens

Here the majority of council tax goes on the elderly and SEN. Everything else scaled back

Every time I go to my GP she checks my blood pressure, goes through my online file checking to see when I last had my bloods done and they're done at least once a year, also checks I'm up to date with smear and mammograms, about twice a year she weighs me.