Can we have a thread to discuss the upcoming MEP Election candidates for Ireland?

[HornyHornersPinkyWinky]

European elections coming up on 7th June. Ireland has 14 seats to fill...

I know it's probably early days, but I got a shiny leaflet in the door from Barry Andrews talking about how great he is - sorry Barry but you're not getting my vote.

It got me thinking though, I have no idea who to vote for. Here's a website which lists all the candidates, if you scroll down you will see the constituencies and if you click on their faces it gives you more information about their policies etc.
https://www.europeanmovement.ie/european-elections-2024/#1708343079798-db46201b-445f

Is there anyone dead set on who they are voting for and willing to share? I'm in Dublin BTW. Actually, if I could I'd vote for Peadar Tobín, but he's in the Midlands constituency...

I do think the far right label is very much overused but I disagree that it's a complete red herring. While the government have not handled the issue of immigration well, there are some downright racists in many of these newer political parties .
Right on? How fringe and anti-immigration candidates are faring (rte.ie)

It's like this. Not one single party in Ireland is anything even remotely close to 'far-right.' There are certainly some very new nationalist parties that are further to right than any of our older parties current policies, but all those newer parties are running on policies that are absolutely the definition of centre-right. Policies that were considered the norm from FF/FG 15 years ago. They are not far right by the actual definition of far right. And it's really, really dangerous to use that kind of terminology to describe them.

Because yes, there are real racists in the country. In all walks of life and racists are more likely to be attracted to the centre-right parties. But if we keep on calling centre-right, far-right, eventually people who have centre-right sensibilities will throw their hands up and go 'fine, fuck it, I'm far-right so.' And most people's morality is somewhat malleable, especially en masse. If people start thinking, if what I think is 'far-right' then what else is the far right correct about. And that's what the racist ideologies can take a hold. So we really, really shouldn't get drawn into using 'far right' when we're not talking about actual far right. Because it's part of the process that could take us to a really, really horrible future.

I'm sure we could argue all day about the definition of far right but I don't remember FF or FG ever campaigning against 'replacement level immigration' or 'corruption of the national spirit by foreign ideas'.
It's not just that racists will be attracted to these parties but some of the candidates in these elections have made indisputably racist statements.

Do the local councils really have that much power?
Councillors are more important than the government especially in rural areas. They're
the ones who get things done locally and get to decide where money is spent. Hence many of them being re-elected even if people aren't happy with the party as a whole. The ones who didn't deliver on promises will be sent packing.

Are you actually trolling now? Because you can't really be serious with that comment right? It's genuinely painful in it's stupidity.

Of course FF and FG weren't campaigning against 'replacement levels of immigration' because both of their parties were in favour of tightly controlling non-EU migration. I used to work for an NGO and I was heavily involved in campaigns for refugees in Ireland 15-20 years ago, and the governments and most main backbenchers back then were fiercely against even a fraction of the current levels of migration.

And there is no need to debate the definitions of 'far-right' it has a set definition and what we have in Ireland doesn't come even remotely close right now. It might in the future and every time people twist facts in order to virtue signal they are only making it more likely.

Listening to chat this morning, the voting decisions in the locals were about:

who got things done the last time (and was honest about those times things were beyond their power.

who was related to people already known, not necessarily through politics - business, the GAA - any network.

who turned up on the door to ask personally for a vote, (or in one case sent a brother to do so).

Political parties weren't mentioned at all.

ps, that was Sinn Fein's huge mistake, and shows their political naivety and possibly arrogance.

I know there is a definition of far right, but I disagree that that these parties don't fit it and I think that is certainly up for debate.
The specific reference to replacement is not just a concern around immigration and wanting tight controls, it is linked to the great replacement theory which is very much part of the far right playbook.
My concern, as I've said, is the explicitly racist statements made by some of these candidates and I'm glad to see that they didn't get as much support as predicted.
I agree that branding anyone expressing concerns about immigration (or other issues) as 'far right' is unhelpful but many of the individuals I am talking about do fall into that category.

I really think the media has a lot to answer for in terms of branding anyone who doesn't align with the government agenda as 'far right'. It's ridiculous because it's meant to scare everyone that we are surrounded by fascists, when actually most ordinary decent people in this country are not in favour of uncontrolled immigration and impact that will have. That doesn't make them bad people, it makes them realists. Instead of addressing this stuff, we are just demonised as bad or racist. I tend to roll my eyes these days when I hear something called far right, because it's usually very much not.

It's also apparently 'far right' to believe that biological sex is real and should be protected legally. Again, somehow that makes us bigots and horrible people. Figure that one out.

My concern, as I've said, is the explicitly racist statements made by some of these candidates and I'm glad to see that they didn't get as much support as predicted.

As you acknowledged, the most extreme voices in this area didn't get much traction, so I don't know what there is to be afraid of. They will always be there, most people don't vote for them.

Media wanging on ( and probably wanking off ) about the great far right surge and Sinn Féin collapse. Still waiting for the Gestapo to knock. And Sinn Féin vote share is up 2.1% . Which is too boring to have a discussion programme on RTÉ about.

Likewise in the Euros , Alternative fur Deutschland 15.9% . Gasp! This means 84.1% voted against them. Let's not mention that eh lads?

I never said I was afraid of them. All I did was suggest that some people may have voted for more centrist parties to keep out some of the more extreme ones.
I completely agree that the media (and government parties) have been overplaying the threat from the 'far right' and that it's unhelpful. It doesn't mean they don't exist though.

You are right on that point. I gave 3rd preference to Sean Kelly FG for that very reason. A very tricky job negotiating that long list and trying to eliminate conspiracy nuts and gender loons. Jose Manuel Barroso thinks Social Democrats in eg Germany have lost votes because they are embroiled in ID politics and genderism. They have forgotten their job is to represent the working class. This probably needs its own thread. With someone smarter than me starting it!

In my area no party got a second seat, independents were the fig winners

Big not fig

@MarieDeGournay both were on radio IIRC, can't remember what programme Bacik was on but someone on youtube (an Ireland is full channel so be warned) has a clip of Chu's comments on Claire Byrne
e

Thanks for posting that video, it's really interesting.

In the course of what was presumably a much longer interview [lots of obvious editing], in which she points out that Dublin does have refugee/asylum seeker accommodation, HC says that some people in Dublin 6 raised the issue of GP places.

Somehow the makers of the video felt that this justified entitling the video
"HAZEL CHU DEFENDS POSH RESIDENTS OF D4 WHO DON'T WANT MIGRANTS BUT CALL WORKING CLASS PEOPLE RACIST FOR WANTING THE SAME THING."

After putting up that caption, they then present a video that proves it wrong!
She does not say posh residents of D4 don't want migrants; she does not say anything about working class people; she does not call anybody racist.

If they have proof that she said those things in a different interview, why didn't they use that one instead?
Did they hope nobody would spot the contradiction? Or is this how deliberate misinformation is spread? It's really interesting to see how it works.

An aside about 'posh residents of Dublin 4 not wanting migrants': in fact the local community in D4 campaigned to have the old Baggot Street Hospital used to accommodate refugees/asylum seekers, and there were even offers of free refurbishment work and local employment for the 'migrants'.
Their offers were turned down by the HSE who have other plans for the building.
These facts obviously don't fit the narrative...

What I've learned from the recent local and European elections is that I know very little about the Irish electorate.
I had thought that many people were unhappy with the Government at the moment - lack of affordable housing, their migration policy, crime rates and a poor health service and this would influence the outcome of the elections.
I was wrong.

@deeahgwitch an analysis of the statistics provides a different view. 49% of people voted in the local elections; 47% in the Euros. People who are angry and upset don’t always vote.

In Tallaght 18% of people voted.

There is a lot of work to be done but the biggest winners in this election were not, as the MSM would have you believe , the government. The biggest winners were Independents - now we need to come together, as a more coherent group.

Thank you for that insight @Iloveshihtzus

I like Shihtzus but prefer Maltese, Yorkies, Bichons, Shetland Sherp dogs, Maltipoos and long haired Chihuahuas

I agree, I thought it was telling that many working class areas had a low turnout. Apparently that's why SF did so badly - maybe it will be higher for the general election who knows. But I think it speaks to people maybe feeling apathetic about what is on offer.

But I think it speaks to people maybe feeling apathetic about what is on offer.
Gosh, if you can't find someone to vote for on a 2-foot long ballot paper with 23 names on it, from anti-immigrant to PBP, you're mighty hard to please!😁

Sinn Fein candidates (or their representatives) being too ?complacent / ?arrogant / ?lazy / ?entitled to go out and knock on doorsteps and tell everyone they meet that their vote is important and that they need to get out and vote. With a side order or listening to what the person wants to ask or tell them about.

We need to be motivated to go to the polling station, and feeling that we know the person we're voting for is a big factor. The established parties know that, from long and hard experience.

In the Dublin count, is it normal for nobody to be elected by the 15th count? Is it down to the sheer number of candidates or reflective of something else?
Andrews and O'Doherty will, I assume, get the 1st two seats, but considering their high number of 1st preference votes I am surprised at the slow pace of progress following that.

Yesh it's weird, maybe because there was so many candidates to choose from. Delighted to hear Claire Daly is out to be honest.

"There is a lot of work to be done but the biggest winners in this election were not, as the MSM would have you believe , the government. The biggest winners were Independents "

'MSM would have you believe' is a bit of a red flag, isn't it? Like, what's the alternative and how demonstrably objective are they?

The counted, checked, double-checked and declared figures from the count centres currently show FF on 245 seats, FG on 245 seats, Green Party on 23, and Independents on 185 and Others on 33.

So the parties in government getting approx. 500 votes, and Independents and Others [there were lots of them running, so it's not like the choice wasn't there] approx 200..

How could any media, mainstream or not, accurately and objectively report those figures any other way than the government parties being 'the biggest winners?'