Immigration in Ireland

[Ivebeentofairyhousebutiveneverbeentomeath]

I'm interested to hear people's viewpoints on this topic, especially given the recent protests. My own opinion is that it is important to help genuine asylum seekers and people wanting to come to Ireland and contribute. At the same time, I understand people's concern about asylum seekers who are deliberately destroying travel documents. I can understand people's concerns. Just wondering what other people's two cents is. Just to give context, I am an Irish person who grew up in Ireland.

As usual Ireland needs to be proactive not reactive.
There are empty buildings everywhere.These should be renovated and used to house our own citizens as well as foreign nationals. Immigrants are arriving daily Ukrainians and refugees. There should be a designated dept opened to combine all this . Lack of communication with government and public is a huge issue .

In those scenarios, if you are looking to put the blame somewhere, greedy landlords would be a good start.

Are you implying that if people are suffering, then it’s ok for them to be racist?

Asylum seekers are not responsible for the housing crisis and the failings of the government. People who lap up that narrative are being manipulated.

No. I'm Saying I don't think most of the ill feeling is racism. It's scared people fighting over limited resources. You could bring 70000 people down from NI and put them up in hotels, fill GP surgeries and schools and people would be angry too. I'm saying I don't think it matters where 70000 people come from, what colour their skin is if there are not enough resources there to go around and for everyone to be happy then ructions are going to happen.

Sure there is uproar in some villages when planning permission is applied for to build a housing estate of 100 houses, where will they go to school, where will they go to the Dr, will they go to local people because my daughter needs a house and we've lived here since 1832 etc Yet people think you can plonk the population of a new city in the country at a time when peoples children are leaving becasue there isn't enough to go around and think the problem is skin colour?

'Are there any countries that have done it 'right' though? Can you do it 'right'.'
leithreas I never said anyone had got it right. I was referring to learning from the mistakes of other countries and how the far right has taken hold.
It's a very complex issue and important that we deal in evidence and facts to counter some of the mis-information that is out there.
It is not surprising that some people in disadvantaged communities are unhappy at how this is being managed. We can't assume that everyone who is protesting is racist or xenophobic. However, their very genuine concerns and lack of housing/ services are ripe for exploitation.

@Nannyamc but those empty buildings belong to someone. We can't just demand people use their private property. We can dissuade people from having second homes etc... through tax but we can't make them offer their property.

I was referring to empty convents monasteries and church held property. They are all over the country.

@Nannyamc churches monasteries don’t belong to the government?

@TheVeryThing is right, it’s a complex issue, The media are trying to polarise public opinion. You’re either For which means acceptance of all immigration without question or Against which means you’re a hateful racist bigot,

'Scared people fighting over limited resources' has turned into out and out scapegoating before. It's the classic recipe for racism.

The government needs to do whatever it takes to prevent this happening.

So many Irish people emigrated to other countries in the past, seeking better lives.
Isn't it to be celebrated that immigrants are now seeking safe haven in Ireland?

To be honest I think it's a sign that our immigration processes need drastically overhauled and improved. I work with a number of asylum seekers and the process is retraumatizing, extremely invasive and really affects people's mental health and wellbeing. I understand that we need to have a system to filter people who are in genuine need etc but the current system and current processes aren't fit for purpose. I don't think we should need to retaumatise people and children to verify them. I think people might do this out of fear because in the North at least the home office are notoriously hostile to work with. I also think part of the problem is the length of time things take to process for eg if an asylum claim takes 4 years to complete and the person arriving is 17 at the time they may be worried they'll be seen as an adult when they aren't. I also think part of it is vulnerable people acting on bad advice.

And saying 'it's racism' is classic scapegoating the government. It's very convenient isn't it? Just label everyone who has a problem as racists and shut them up rather than actually listen to what people need 🙄. It's simplifying things to the extreme, if the racists just stop being racist it will all be fine and we will all live together with rainbows and unicorns.

Do you really think that if hotels in the arsehole of nowhere Mayo or wherever we're being filled with single men from Dublin that couldn't work, couldn't drive, pretty much had nothing to do all day but roam the streets people wouldn't have any issues with it? What about it 70000 people from up north suddenly came down and needed feeding and housing while people are struggling to feed and house themselves? You think everyone would be fine with it? You don't think there would any problems at all?

Applications for asylum should be processed quickly. The endless appeals for failed asylum seekers must be stopped and those that don't meet the requirements should be deported. This will free up room for the genuine refugees that are most in need.

This is true...some of my family came to the UK and america as religious refugees....no hotels, free food, support network etc...they intergrated and got on with it and were successful...its being abused in Ireland...Algerians, Moroccans, Egyptians, Nigerians, Albanians, Indians...all claiming to be refugees ..flying in on tourist visas and then flushing the passports in plane toilets etc.. many say they are even from Ukraine...that is ridiculous...african males stating they are ukrainian to get into the system and be housed for years until its decided they are bogus....there is a lot of censorhip about all this going on...the demos are getting bigger and bigger over there....these people need to stop abusing the system for the genuine people out there.

In fairness most asylum seekers want to work and are often highly qualified in their country of origin but are not allowed to work here. And even when granted asylum theres often not the framework in place to verify their qualifications so they can continue working in the field they trained for. If they were allowed to do so that would take pressure off the tax payers purse and they'd be paying tax and contributing to the economy. It would also make life easier because asylum seekers get much less than minimum wage to live off. That's an issue with the immigration system not the people. Also I think there is definitely an element of racism when people were jumping to offer support to people fleeing the Ukraine war but are unhappy with the Eritrean family being accommodated. Not sure what the difference is in that scenario other than skin colour. So it's naieve to think racism doesn't play a part in it.@johnnytightlips I think part of the issue is also the way people are verified especially children. I know kids who've left their family at 12 and by the time they arrive here at say 15 they don't fully understand why their family sent them away (because they were not safe but the family didn't want to scare them or get in trouble themselves while remaining there). They also have a very poor grasp of trauma and ptsd and gaps in story or incongruity is jumped on, but a child might not have processed all the info or might not understand that it's safe for them to give info about their family because they're scared of what could happen to them if it's found that they got them out. Sometimes it's impossible to get a translator who speaks the right dialect and language can lead to problems and miscommunication. That's why there's so many appeals it's not all just flushed passports. If the process were better it would move faster.

I’m an Irish citizen, and like the majority of Irish people I don’t live there. So, I have no real experience of the strain an influx of migrants or refugees might have on the infrastructure. However, I also live in a city that has a large amount of asylum seekers. It’s by no means perfect but I think most people understand the situation.
But, I honestly can’t believe the audacity of Irish people to be so anti-immigration. The way that so many Irish were discriminated against when they went to other parts of the world for a better life and now some are doing this to others. It makes me feel ashamed.

I think that public reaction to the current refugee situation is a reflection of the systematic failure of the last number of governments to address very significant social issues in Ireland.

This is the reality of having a more right wing leaning government for such a long period of time. Deterioration of quality of life for significant portions of the population will do that.

The cost of living crisis along with housing crisis failure to provide appropriate level of public services has pushed people to the edge.

I dont think it is unreasonable that people are questioning how the country will sustain the level of financial/housing/service supports needed when the government is failing citizens so badly at the moment.

I think Leo's statement on racism will actually be counter productive and piss people of even more.

There is legitimate concerns about the countries current ability to function for citizens.

@Amortentia I don't understand your comment 'like the majority of Irish people I don't live there'. A fair few Irish people live in Ireland. I've spent time living abroad myself, and with all due respect, if you're not actually living in the area, then your experience of the issues will be fairly limited.

In fairness most asylum seekers want to work and are often highly qualified in their country of origin but are not allowed to work here

I never said it is their fault but it is the reality. The reality is that you are holing up people stacked 4 to a little room with nothing to do all day everyday for years. Where ever they are from people know that is a recipe for disaster.

Do you not think the tide has turned on Ukrainians too? At first it was yay let's help, then the reality hit. Paying to feed and house 10s of 1000s of people. People kids not getting places in schools, waiting times to see Drs going up and on and on. Nobody wants their standard of living declining and that is happening here at a rapid rate and the poorer people in society are the ones paying the price the most.

It absolutely isn't the refugees fault themselves but the government isn't listening. The government and people like mathsanxiety are just saying stop being racist. It's all very neat and absolves them of any responsibility to actually deal with some very real issues. Stonewall and gaslight people and shock horror get angry.

'This is true...some of my family came to the UK and america as religious refugees....no hotels, free food, support network etc...they intergrated and got on with it and were successful...its being abused in Ireland...'
Good point

The world is a different place these days though wouldn't you think?
It's not entirely possible for people to do this anymore.

I absolutely agree condeming people with concerns as racist is not helpful.
Our politicians and media though appear to be intent on infantalising our population - there's no nuance in discussion its a good vs bad dichotomy only.
Why is this? Any fool can see that large numbers of asylum seekers arriving into socially deprived areas is going to cause resentment. Why are they not being sent to more affluent communities which are potentially better placed to deal with and help them?

No it's not racism, at this point it's clear the government isn't listening. They need to learn from lessons that were learnt in countries like Denmark and Sweden but they just plough on, heads in the sand.

@Amortentia as you say, you don't live in Ireland. There's no ''audacity''. Just people trying to get a new doctor, or a school place or a hospital appointment.

My friend has been trying to get back to work now that her DC are old enough for a short walk from school to home until she gets back. But it is impossible for her to get a school place in her town. It will remain so, scuppering her chances of making work work

. Everybody you talk to has a story like that, services are just brimming over their capacity, and people I've talked to aren't blaming anybody, just frustrated.

The Irish weren't treated well when they went To America 200 years ago or to the UK maybe 50 years ago (although I know the UK is now very diverse and welcoming to Irish people), but then, Irish people aren't in hotels or on 220 euro a week.

I don't think Irish people have ''audacity'' to see what the government won't see.

Growing up with Irish parents in the 1960's I clearly recall the signs I read around me. "No blacks, no dogs, no Irish". That was in England. The Irish have so often been the economic migrants, fleeing oppression and poverty. I have always been proud of my Irish roots, and have held an Irish passport since I was 20 because I am proud of my roots and the Irish people and culture (and not just to have suddenly found my roots because of Brexit). The Irish were not always welcome where they went. They were also seen as lesser beings and a threat at times. And I am ashamed that some people cannot see the parallels with people seeking refuge from similar situations today. There are without any doubt better ways to handle migration in Ireland - there definitely are in the UK. But making desperate people the enemy is not the answer.

Fairly sure that asylum seekers are on far less than €220 a week unless claims have been processed? At which point they're entitled to the same rates any Irish person would be.
Perhaps different for Ukrainians, I'm not sure.
There is serious conflict in Nigeria and places like it too.
Just because the rolling news cycle focuses on particular hotspots doesn't mean that people from elsewhere don't have valid asylum claims.

I don't know. I can't see how this is going to get better tbh. Government not willing to listen on one hand, and bad actors stoking resentment on the other.

@IvebeentofairyhousebutiveneverbeentomeathI was referring to Irish diaspora. There are so many Irish people scattered across the world we should know better than anyone what it’s like to have to settle somewhere else.

@xJoy Youre absolutely right, I don’t live in Ireland so I don’t know what it’s like. But, I live in Glasgow. Did you know that Scotland and Rep. of Ireland have a similar size population. That Scotland has 9% of the UK population but takes approximately 20% of all refugees. That most settle in the central belt and is a significantly higher number of people compared to the number that arrive In Ireland. So I do have some appreciation for the impact an influx of people can have on infrastructure. Most cities in Europe are experiencing this. Still, I do think the anti-immigration protesters are taking the piss and are just a bunch of racists. The problems with housing, particularly in Dublin have been a massive issue for at least 20 years. You’ve had successive governments that are incapable of improving infrastructure or willing to build enough housing. Each European county must accept that we have to accept refuges, so we need to plan for this.