Strikes: Anyone else think this country is screwed financially?

[TulipsandButterflies]

Watching the news about the RCN rejection of the NHS pay offer for nurses. Of course it has been rejected. The cost of living is continuing to rise and nurses, and other NHS staff, are leaving in droves due to crap pay and big workloads. I am NHS but in another profession (we are watching carefully what happens with this). I am doing the work of 3 and under immense pressure at work (although it wasn’t as bad as this in my previous roles a few years ago). I’ve just been told my blood pressure is higher than it should be which has really worried me so I have started looking elsewhere for work (I started in the NHS in 1996).

Junior docs are also striking. Teachers and others too!

With the cost of living continuing to rise, people will start to struggle…especially those with a young family or people who are single.

What can be done? Raise national insurance? Raise tax? Something has to happen. I admire nurses for taking a stand. They aren’t just striking for a decent pay rise but also for safer staffing levels. A lot of NHS staff will be struggling with their own health. This has to be addressed.

And, what happens with the NHS pay rise of Unison members have accepted it but the RCN has rejected it?

I think the country is messed up and it’s worrying!

The pay rise won't happen until it gets a majority of unions acceptance.

We're all screwed but the rich are getting richer so the money is going somewhere just not to us mortals.

They should cut public spending in other areas to ensure Nurses and junior doctors have a decent pay rise and address the recruitment and retention issues. the longer the issues go on the longer the waiting lists get and ill health continues and leaves people unable to work and claiming disability benefits etc. It's very short sighted of them to not get it sorted quickly. Every day I see old people waiting for knee and hip replacements and getting more disabled, claiming Attendance allowance at £100 a week and a lot of them it seems like their GP's aren't even bothering to refer them any more for surgery, they just seem to be fobbed off or they've given up trying to see a Gp. It's sad and costing the government so much more than if they just properly addressed the problem before it really is too late.

Seen a lot of anger around unison accepting offer.
Are most of unison more support staff less patient facing so maybe paid less than nurse's therefore they can't afford to strike for long as they won't get paid.
Also they maybe under less stress than if they more frontline as its not just about pay its about working conditions/ stress/pressure too.

I do think the Unions have to stick together and co_ordinate strikes force government has.
The RMT got a deal eventually.
But the economic effects of so many people nurses/ doctors/teachers all striking means less tax for treasury.
Less money to spend on the economy
Not to mention hardship of being on strike regularly without pay.

A pay rise would increase taxation
Also boost the economy as imagine areas like hospitality/ non essential retail and tourism will suffer right now as many won't have money to buy any extras.

Most non clinical support staff eg porters, cleaners etc are contracted out to private companies not directly employed by NHS.

I'm not sure to what extent they are covered by the current ballots for pay deals as many will be union members but probably negotiate pay separately to NHS staff.

And yet people keep voting Tory and they’re robbing us blind.

How can the payrise increase taxation when it COMES from taxation to begin with?

Yes some will come back as income tax, vat etc but if it is all coming from the public purse to begin with there would be a net loss.

Which public spending would you cut?

Not goady, genuinely interested.

They should cut public spending in other areas to ensure Nurses and junior doctors have a decent pay rise and address the recruitment and retention issues.

Yes they should ensure decent pay and conditions to halt the recruitment and retention crisis, but no need to cut elsewhere. Let’s have some fairer taxation for the oil and gas industry, for example. Add some extra council tax bands to ensure that the owner of an £80 million penthouse is paying orders of magnitude more than someone with a nice but unremarkable four bedroomed house.

Baffles the mind.

There is a section of society, that has asset stripped this country. The NHS and local authorities have also been fair game for the private sector, with eye watering and failed contracts wherever you look.

Sadly, I would also include some of those that came in with 'New Labour'. The shit is really hitting the fan now. Those that have profited most are not going to do anything to restore public services and industry. They have the wealth to use services in other countries whenever they need to.

The country is screwed because of lack of investment over the years & the ageing population. There is too much wealth inequality & they can't really increase income tax much more. The only way is to target wealth & for most this means property but people won't tolerate it. It's only going to get worse.

Let’s have some fairer taxation for the oil and gas industry, for example. Add some extra council tax bands to ensure that the owner of an £80 million penthouse is paying orders of magnitude more than someone with a nice but unremarkable four bedroomed house.

This isn't realistic though without a global initiative.

Unfortunately there aren't enough owners of £80m penthouses to make a difference. In order for a wealth tax to raise money to the extent required, it would inevitably affect every property.

This could be done by changing council tax to an annual property tax where a percentage of the value of the property is paid in tax annually, or a land value tax which is much the same but is easier to calculate or by removing the CGT exemption from all houses so that everyone pays CGT when they sell any property.

None of these taxes would be remotely popular so any prospective government who added them to their manifesto would not be elected - look at the opposition to a Land Value Tax on here when Labour half heartedly suggested it in 2017 or the response to Theresa May's very mild proposals for adult social care...

I'm assuming increased income tax
and then more money to spend so via VAT also.

https://twitter.com/cpeedell/status/1645767502482362368?t=7TI_iohJoXOLrbAx7m-_Tw&s=19

I work In private health and social care and the pay rise has pushed myself and many of my colleagues into paying tax as minimum wage rise yet the basic taz threshold is frozen at £12570 despite over 10% inflation.
The net rise doesn't even cover all my Increased fixed bills and we definatly have less disposable income to eat out, buy new items or go on holiday.

@jotunn agree, the only solution is for everyone to pay but as you say it won't go down well. I have know idea why Teresa May was vilified for her proposal. I'm not sure what people want tbh but the NHS needs far more money to survive.

I completely agree with the asset stripping, we have endless money to chuck at ill advised private contractors. Brexit was such an endless waste of money and continues to be so, with no real benefit. We threw money at Tory donating suppliers who didn’t fulfil contracts properly during Covid - billions were wasted. Now when hardworking people need an increase to help with the cost of living we don’t have the money.

We have the money for the right people, that’s how it seems.

Australia and USA and many other countries pay their workforce far, far higher. Why are our wages so low?! Strikes are needed as it's becoming impossible to survive for many.

wages have stagnated for years whereas assets have increased dramatically. Trouble is so much of the economy is driven by house price growth, Many didn't mind or notice that their wage hadn't grown but their house had doubled in value. Now that interest rates are a bit higher the facade as dropped. No idea how you solve it though.

I think we need the opposite of austerity and to heavily invest in things, this will generate growth and raise more tax to pay off the borrowing for the investement. Theres lots we can invest in but i would guess green energy and cutting edge green transport manufacturers, which do still exist in this country, our gaming industry, creative arts. Things that are selling well abroad. Not just financial services in London. This might involve boosting education, and apprentiships in these areas.

This.

The only option is to build more houses, and not executive homes, but there is no political will to do so (from any party. The Lib Dem's win round here in the basis of opposition to any development - labour do the same in the next constituency over).

Paying pensions is the biggest drain IMO, all these baby boomers, many of whom were public sector workers on final salary schemes.

No government has ever wanted to address the issues of the payout being unsustainable.

It's hard isn't it, as where do you make cuts ? I would be happy to pay more in taxes but understand that many won't.

I was looking online at jobs and was amazed to see how low some of the support staff are paid in the nhs.

One of the school mums is a consultants secretary they were all band 4, then they did some sort of review and they became band 3's but most people stayed because of their pension and annual leave benefits. She said that as band 3's leave the roles automatically seem become band 2's and advertised as "admin clerks" rather than a secretary but that they are now expected to do even more than they were as band 4's.

She said a 5% rise is an absolute joke and that people are really unhappy about it. Morale is very low seemingly but she says now she can work from home more she tried to just crack on with it but apparently there is a lot of open vacancies being filled by agency workers.

She does 3 or some weeks 4 days in the hospital and the rest from home and said if she had to go in 5 days a week it's so depressing she'd probably leave!

This. It's madness for pensions to be triple locked while hard to recruit workers have their pay eroded.

I'm a nurse in my early 30s and I feel so conned. I'm going to retire in my 70s but you can already see the effect the chronic stress is having on my health.

I get this. Buy a public sector pay rise means we all pay for it through additional taxation. Or they print money again, which has never worked in all of history ever.

It'll be the mortals funding any public sector pay rises not the elite.

So their pay will need to go up too.