Will we really see bills stay below the ridiculous Oct prediction?

[pinkyponkyplink]

Is this actually going to be happen? We have been worried sick about affording £400 and £700 a month predictions. It would make a huge difference to us! Just can't actually believe it might not happen after all the worry!

😂good question!

Personally, I think Fred is NBU, as, with a larger household, he took reasonable steps to ensure that his larger household would still be able to have apples!

However, I do wonder on the legalities of the fruiterers pushing forward with charging Fred £1.45 per apple, if there is a government mandated maximum of £1 per apple. Surely they can't legally ask for that now. I would hope that when the details are released later today, there is some mention of those who tried to prepare and have fixed at a higher-than-the-capped-per-apple-price.

No they don’t @User148563. Eon weren’t charging to exit but BG were. Fred fixed his apples with Eon so at least he isn’t miffed further by a potential exit fee.

I didn't realise that only BG have exit fees to stop you going to other companies

Yes agree it’s shocking that some people don’t understand it’s a user pays system.

Nice apple analogy.

However as you see the media are misreporting still. This from the Guardian’s leading story:

The new prime minister is expected to announce to MPs that bills will be frozen at about £2,500 a year until 2024 as part of a package of support costing up to £130bn, funded by the taxpayer,

And I just can’t believe that the energy companies are required to take a hit on their profits to fund this bail out. No, it’s us paying for it by taxes. 🙄

We are paying 15% above too. Look at what a summer bill would cost under the cap and on your fix though. The 15% is an average over a year but my electric standing charge is lower so my summer bills are only out by about £2, then in winter I'd have been paying more than 15% above the April cap. If my fix is higher than the SV (I'll have to work it out based on winter usage) in October then I will end it (no exit fee with Octopus).

AREN’T required to take a hit on their profits. 🤦🏼‍♀️

People need to start protesting on the streets and demand a general election.

Why should tax payers pay for this when the rich are getting richer? Moaning on mumsnet won't change anything, you all need to actually take some action.

The most stressful decision Fred had to make was should he fix or not. These price rises are not the fault of the apple sellers but the people who own the apple trees. However, the apple sellers made this time so much harder by offering two blimming tariffs and Freds all over the country either had the choice with current seller, didn’t have the choice with current seller, were forced to shop with another seller or wanted to shop with another but couldn’t…
If the fix or no fix option had been removed months ago a lot of Fred’s stress would not have happened.

My guess is they will have to backdate the cap to anyone who has fixed in the recent past. So that no one pays more than the SVR was at that time. Seems fair.

But don't see it as governments changing the goal posts any more than usual. I've lost track of how many times I've ended up on the wrong side of a stamp duty change. It's frustrating but government changes always mean the goal posts move.

It's because gas and electric have been low for many years. The small companies especially were charging unsustainably low prices. £2500 a year for an average household with what goes into the production, transportation and delivery of utilities isn't crazy high it's just we have been spoilt with cheap prices. Same with food.

Please lets not argue about fixing not fixing, etc. YMMV. It all depends how financially clued up you are, how much income you have, what sources of news you listen to, how much faith you have in government, did your energy company survive or not, options available in the market which constantly change, what your typical energy needs are and so on. This is not something to fall out about.

We’re all at sea here because Putin is waging an economic war on us and we don’t know how to respond to that, and our infrastructure is not sheltering us adequately due to decades of underinvestment in green energy sources. Which ironically to deal with the current crisis, Truss is probably going to take away further investment from.

Well my sister actual usage is £65 and they wanted to increase to £500

Yes when you work out the actual usage with new prices it's only £185.

They are over estimating greatly and ripping people off.

Just pay for what you use

Martin Lewis talks a little about those that have already fixed. It's a low % due - probably due to varous restrictions on finding a fix when your company went bust or your previous fix ended.

"What happens to those who have fixed tariffs? Up to 15% of households are on fixed tariffs, many have locked in at higher prices, as they are risk averse and wanted to protect their bills. So what happens? Will they automatically be put on the price freeze?

If they are not automatically moved, will they be allowed to switch to the price freeze? If so and their tariff has early exit penalties (some of which can be £300+), will they still be charged? (Hopefully not, especially as it'd likely be an internal tariff change and exit penalties are often wiped for those).

This will need sorting out as a priority so those who've tried to protect themselves don't miss out. I would of course be lobbying for that and hope there's a chance some policymakers may just be reading this now to ensure it is addressed.

If you fixed within the last 14 days, do check when the cooling off period ends, as on Thursday when we hopefully know what's actually happening you may want to cancel.

PS: The political risk of policy shift has always been there (it's one I included in my Should I fix guide) though this is perhaps a more radical turn than many expected. The 'should I fix' call has never been easy. That's one reason when explaining the level it's worth considering at, I've always described as 'crystal ball gazing' with no way to know if it's the right call.

Some who have made the call to fix recently may feel frustrated by this. Yet ultimately remember, you made the call based on the information available at the time, that's all you can do, it was a good decision for you based on what you knew, even if the outcome doesn't turn out to be the best."

It's never made that clear why things can't happen though is it ? I'm all for a windfall tax , I suppose most people are , but once you drill down into the actual facts and figures you discover that many energy companies profits are not liable to UK taxes, so it's as easy as asking them to just pay all this money.
It's all very complicated and very few people are able to understand taxes on this level and how it all works ; I'd hazard a guess that some people on mumsnet might be able to , but many ( like me ) won't and if you look it up it's like falling down a rabbit hole. Five live radio made these points today as well.
It's just so sad that they will borrow more money to have to get us through this crisis
Imagine if this money could be put towards other things like the NHS or primary care or schools. I just hope it pans out in the end, but it'll be us all paying for it for years and years.
Putin must be laughing up his sleeve as he watches us all crash and burn , it could all signal the end of capitalism.

80s I’ve been trying to get more insight into windfall tax and I heard a clear explanation yesterday why the body for Offshore Energy say it’s problematic

I looked up the speaker and found this oeuk.org.uk/new-windfall-tax-proposals-risk-untold-damage-to-national-energy-security-warns-offshore-energies-uk/

The speaker was for sustainability and talked about the importance of U.K. energy security.

It should have been a least part funded with a windfall tax. The energy shares went up when she announced there would be no tax.

I suppose its no different to the government effectively paying large companies employees wages when they give employees tax credits to prop up the low pay

Best case scenario for consumers is that the government package covers the period right up to the next election, based on borrowing and lending to the energy companies; and then Labour win the election, impose the windfall tax and pay off the debt so that consumers don’t have the responsibility for paying back to the public coffers.

The Labour Party might be hampered by getting the companies to pay up ! It clearly isn't as easy as it seems.

I'm just shocked that they also want to cut taxes too ; so many conservatives feel this isn't a good idea at this time , but she will plow ahead. Meanwhile it'll be all the other services that will suffer.

I agree! But it’s the best case scenario, as I say.

I am really concerned that Liz doesn’t understand how tax cuts work, or even worse, that she does, and doesn’t care. I have worked in the public sector for 25 years. Our funding is about 1/3 of what it was 15 years ago. And we are expected to do more and more with it every year. There are no pips left to squeak in all public services. We are entering dangerous waters.

I wonder if the conservatives would be keen to borrow 100 billion for everything else that is wrong with the country ? I very much doubt it.
Although it is a crisis that needs addressing , it's just sad the money has to go to the energy companies instead who won't plow it into the services we need ( and I know I'm being very simplistic here )

The £2500 ‘average use’ cap equates to 35p for electric and 10p for gas , it will save me, a below average user for gas and bang on average for electric,
£100 a month versus the previously predicted October cap .

How do people propose to force nationalisation or a windfall tax on foreign owned companies? ( They can’t).
Only TWO energy producers are British owned , Centrica and SSE, the other four are French/Spanish/German.

I am really concerned that Liz doesn’t understand how tax cuts work, or even worse, that she does, and doesn’t care. I have worked in the public sector for 25 years. Our funding is about 1/3 of what it was 15 years ago. And we are expected to do more and more with it every year. There are no pips left to squeak in all public services. We are entering dangerous waters.

They're not my politics but the Conservative view is one of small state: so public services does less, requiring less budget. The theory being that if people pay less tax, they have more of their own money to purchase those services for themsleves, should they want them.

Truss, in particular, subscribes to the view that if people get to keep more of their own money, they will spend that money and the government will get the tax anyway - just at a different point (the pointing of spending, not the point of earning). So the tax receipts don;t lose out in the longer run. And that this spending, in turn, will drive increased economic activity thus benefitting the economy.

As I say, not my politics, but just explaining why low tax tends to be a Conservative goal.

The theory being that if people pay less tax, they have more of their own money to purchase those services for themsleves, should they want them

That might work for certain things (can't think of any specific examples at the moment) but not for a lot of them, a lot of services are more efficiently provided at a national level rather than lots of independent businesses, who's main aim is to make a profit rather than provide an optimum level of service, plus there's a lot of services that people might never use or even be aware of, but you'd be sure that if they ever needed it, they'd expect it to exist and be available and good quality, eg emergency services and response, which goes far beyond police, fire and ambulance, but unless there's a particular event, it's absence might not even be noticed.

And often, the message from the government contradicts their actual provision for said service or facility. They usually talk about aspiring to 'world leading' X, Y or Z, but when it comes to funding, it's a different matter.

My bill from a bill reading was £94 last month.

We turn everything off at the socket, that we are not using. No heating on. No hot water on. We turn this on for just 1 hour before we need it. Turn TV on to watch it, then off at the sockets. Nothing on standby.

The same will happen with the heating as it gets cold. We have stocked of on Sale Throws for each room and there is a cuddly pile on the sofa. All have fleece PJs including the dog. I've started making PJs for dogs as they will likely suffer too if homes are not warm. Heating will stay switched off, but we will do a 1 hour only setting if it gets chilly.

I refuse to go to work to give my hard earned cash to shareholders.