Why are people suspicious of smart meters?

[ilkleymoorbartat]

We're thinking of getting one, but there seems to be such a mix of opinions. People who are against them, can you explain why?

Most of the problems that are coated seemed to have been with the first generation of meters and not the new ones.

The first ones were such a money wasting exercise because everyone was being encouraged to change supplier and shop around even though most of the meters were attached to the supplier that fitted them and wouldn't work if you changed. It was for the government targets that people including myself were fitted with something not fit for purpose so the blame lies with the government for this.

Same here. There is no benefit for me, I read my meters, know what most affects my usage, and my usage is already low. It would also cost me lost income if I needed to be home to have meters changed.

You have to be careful with the gas ones as when they run out of battery your gas goes off and you have to have the engineer round to change the battery and we all know how quickly that is going to happen, you could be left for ages without gas.

I relented and had one fitted last year. It’s been offline about 80% of the time since. Across two providers. Absolute crap.

I did a detailed thread about smart meters back in 2011. Some of it may be out of date, but AFAIK the basics still hold true.

Vizt, that the main purposes of smart meters are:
a) surge pricing, and
b) the ability to automatically switch off individual appliances in your home via your smart home network when the utility companies want to smooth the load.

There are some positive features of smart meters, but the downsides STILL aren't widely enough understood – so we aren't properly addressing these. That includes acknowledging which groups will be most negatively impacted by surge pricing. I also haven't checked recently, but back in 2011 there was next to no consideration of what will happen when appliances start being auto-switched off for more than an unspecified "very short period".

www.mumsnet.com/talk/other_subjects/1327330-Anyone-having-a-gas-leccy-meter-replaced-with-a-Smart-Meter-Something-you-need-to-know

We're a lot of national cyberattacks under the bridge since I wrote the above thread. The question "But who would want to attack a country's power system" probably has some obvious answers by now too.

I'm trying to imagine it but not getting what you mean. Who are they and how would somehow having access to your smart meter allow anyone to know if you'd gone out and assuming "they" are your energy supplier do you think they are going to come round and steal your washing?

This was me before I ever had one. It sounded complex and why fix it if it's not broken. Always been on PP but never had the monitor thing to go with it. Love being able to top up VIA my phone especially in winter and avoiding the ques in the shop.

The beeping on the monitor is my only gripe though!

Where I live, the utility is very honest about the fact that they will use them to turn off or throttle your power in times of high demand.

Personally I think the rise in use of electric vehicles will make the "smart home network" as planned, redundant.

Once we have a large number of car batteries storing energy, whose recharging can safely be interrupted for a while – unlike your fridge or washing machine – the whole pointless piddling around with fragile domestic appliances will seem like a ridiculous approach.

My guess is there may end up being a modified form of "smart network" where recharging points for vehicles are the only things being subject to the surge pricing and auto-switching. Batteries are more robust, don't give away all the detailed personal information about what's being used when, and if they get bricked by a malfunction or attack, it's much easier to get a new car battery delivered and fitted than a new smart meter which needs a visit by an engineer to install a new one (or even a new washing machine, which is still more resource-intensive and hasslesome to replace than a little car battery). Plus it's unlikely you'd get all the batteries killed off at the same time, regardless of the attack, and there will usually be other alternatives for transport at any given time.

As I understand it the energy companies have been instructed by the governement and must meet certain targets for numbers. I don't think you can hold them responsible, if they lead to people reducing energy then they will be worse off

Energy generators have been able to observe and price for peak periods for literally decades and peak pricing is already built into tariffs.

Our gas smart meter completely died and had been off for about 8 months before we realised.

Still had gas.

Because some people like to be contrary for the sake of it. I expect that it's the same people who refuse to have Covid vaccines.

Probably also the complete and utter tools who think that Covid comes from 5G masts.

Tianc "b) the ability to automatically switch off individual appliances in your home via your smart home network when the utility companies want to smooth the load.

this is the one that really worries me. There's no way the company should be able to decide what's more important to have switched on.

Nope, had five covid jabs. No smart meter.

That's quite a batshit little theory of correlation you've got going there.

Wouldn’t you need smart plugs to switch individual appliances off? If you wanted to switch my dryer off you’d need to turn the kitchen ring main off at the fuse box which would shut the fridge and freezer off.

Well, technically you'll be the one to decide, because you'll be supposed to programme your various smart devices to choose which one gets switched off under what circumstances.

All of which assumes your apps work smoothly even when suddenly updated, and that you have the apps in the first place, and the smart phone to run them on, and the signal to the phone, and the password for the washing machine that you bought second hand. Etc etc.

It's all additional life admin for you to make sure all these things work – and when they don't the companies will tell you you're the one at fault for failing to make it happen.

And all the time you'll be being told that you have Choice – to put the fridge off or the TV or the washing machine.

"And also how much the standing charge packs on to my bills each day even with no other use happening."

You know know you're still using electricity when your fridge/freezer is plugged in, and when you use things like an, alarm system, Alexa, broadband box, clock radios. It's very hard to use absolutely no electricity in todays modern life.

Yes, a smart plug is supposed to be the alternative to a smart device (probably not a good alternative if it stops the washing machine mid-spin.)

They can't even connect my smart meter to the supplier so I doubt they will be tapping into peoples homes remotely to switch off washing machines anytime soon

I'm not going to have one until I'm legally obligated to. I'm on a pre-pay, so don't need a smart meter to tell me how much I'm using and how much it's costing me. Also this:

www.cityam.com/ofgem-to-overhaul-smart-meters-in-push-for-surge-pricing/

Um, well, fully-jabbed me and my fully-jabbed friend who works in telecoms on 5G both think the original plan for smart meters was dangerous, poorly thought-through madness.

<shrug>

I haven't kept up with changes on the security front, though. I know people were working to try to mitigate the some of the risks – though it's not possible to remove these brand new risks entirely.

They have caused health problems in some people, depending how close the meter is to your house..

Smart meters Give off RF radiation , electromagnetic radiation , electropollution cause dizziness, ear pain, memory problems, heart palpitations, anxiety, and sleep problems
Smart meters produce 60x the safety limit of RF radiation and 160 x amount that your phone produces
RF radiation is carcinogenic to humans
Humans have electricity inside our cells, things like smart meters can effect us negatively

This April:
Ukrainian power grid 'lucky' to withstand Russian cyber-attack
www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-61085480

There was a previous cyber attack on Ukraine's power grid in 2016, which had been prepared a long time before being actually triggered:

3 March 2016
Inside the Cunning, Unprecedented Hack of Ukraine's Power Grid
The hack on Ukraine's power grid was a first-of-its-kind attack that sets an ominous precedent for the security of power grids everywhere.
www.wired.com/2016/03/inside-cunning-unprecedented-hack-ukraines-power-grid/

I don't think either of these attacks used domestic smart meters. However smart meters, being remotely reprogrammable, do massively increase the attack surface available to malicious actors. I'd say it's a case of when, not if, there's an attempted attack via smart meters.

Though like I say, I haven't kept up with what's going on to mitigate the risks.

Because it's unlikely to change my usage habits. I don't want to use the washing machine or charge electronics over night because of the fire risk. I make an evening meal in the evening, and I put lights on when it's dark. A smart meter analysing that won't change it.