Covid vaccine during pregnancy

[Eleano]

I couldn't find a recent thread so I'm posting a new one.

I'm 11 weeks pregnant and have had no encouragement from my midwife to get the Covid vaccine. I've booked it for tomorrow and wanted to get some opinions.

I got vaccinated for Covid a few times when everyone was being called for vaccination and have no issue with being vaccinated but I'm nervous now that I'm pregnant since it seems that most pregnant women don't get vaccinated due to fear and a lack of guidance.

I heard a few womens' midwives told them to avoid it since pregnant women weren't in the clinical trials and since the current variant isn't severe.

However, my husband's a teacher and brings Covid home about twice a year and I catch it every time and it makes me ill for about a week.

I'm the only pregnant woman I know in my social circle getting the vaccine. Am I doing the right thing?

You don't need an RCT on whether masks work, any more than you do on whether crutches work, or whether wearing surgical gloves matters. Because it's basic physics.

You do need to look at the effectiveness of mask mandates, and the Cochrane review found the evidence was poor quality and patchy.

I always think of HART and this book together.

Hi @strupel . You will almost certainly be fine either way, so I hope you're not too stressed over the decision.

Personally, I would recommend reading the HART group's objections to the blanket encouragement of pregnant women to get the vaccine. If you read their letters and articles, you can follow the links to the relevant references. Also, of course, talk to professionals about any concerns and treat all sources as fallible. You might completely disagree with HART on this, and that's fine - but personally I'd want to read the material first.

Here's the link from earlier: RCOG still pushing covid vaccines to pregnant women – HART (hartgroup.org)

There are also previous articles on the HART website about it, and you can follow the chain.

In any case, I hope (as above) you don't have to agonise too much over the decision, and that you're happy with whatever you decide to do.

I'm linking this because if I were in your position, I'd want someone to raise questions so I could appraise counter-opinion. I've made decisions in the past based on what I thought was "medical consensus", and have subsequently had very unpleasant cause for regret.

All the very best to you and your baby :)

Sorry @strupel - I misread and thought you were actually pregnant and making that decision. In any case, the above is the train of thought here. All the digressions and diversions were essentially about whether or not people should be referred to such links as a part of the thinking. In my opinion, it's helpful. Others disagree. This is (in my opinion) fine, as long as we at least try to be respectful about it all.

Can't believe anyone would have a vaccine that doesn't actually work, especially when pregnant! Sorry, but it's a resounding no from me, no to any. Trust your body! It's amazing what it can do!

Any proof that it doesn't work and that it's a better decision to just trust our bodies?

If it didn't work don't you think that hospitals would still be overrun with people dying from Covid?

This is bonkers

How far does "trust your body" go? No childhood vaccines? No antibiotics if you have an infection? No painkillers if you've got an injury? No glasses if your sight isn't great? No surgery if you have appendicitis? No insulin if you have type 1 diabetes? No fillings if you have a cavity?

I absolutely would not get it

@vinegarasacleaner I think that's pretty gross and unacceptable that you thought I was a pregnant woman with a vaccine booked in (rather than just typing out a hypothetical), and you sent me links to HARTs disinformation campaign which certainly could scare someone off doing something that is recommended as it reduces risk for both mum and baby.

As many posters has said, there is nothing in that article that is backed up by any kind of evidence or that disproves global recommendations.

OP, I'm guessing you've had your vaccine now as your original post was nearly a week ago!
For info, I had my COVID vaccine when I was pregnant and I've got a perfectly healthy nearly 2 year old DD now. I never got COVID at all during my pregnancy...unfortunately we all caught COVID the following year! Not a pleasant time, but we made it through!

@strupel . As I said, I'm doing what I hope someone would do for me in similar circumstances. If that's gross/unacceptable to you, I can live with it, as I still think it's the right thing to do.

Completely disengenous reply @vinegarasacleaner

You sent me links to an article which contains fake claims such as these vaccines can cause miscarriage (untrue) and postpartum hemorrhage (untrue), alongside misleading statements about how these vaccines do not offer protection, and something like vitamin D3 would work instead.

I think you are being very smart by refusing to type out these claims when people ask you specifically why HART are recommending against vaccination, because it would get deleted.

Instead you waffle about other things and keep providing the links - including to someone who you thought was pregnant and had a planned vaccine.

@strupel , nope, not disingenuous. I won't do justice to it here - much better that people read full correspondence and can see sources. And to say that what HART say is unevidenced is frankly bizarre. If you've read their correspondence, followed up the links to published research, and are still happy - great; go for it and get as many of the jabs as you like. You'll have seen the counterarguments and made up your own mind. That's all I'm advocating for. It's truly fascinating to see the wrath that leads to.

@vinegarasacleaner

Wrath because you are linking unverified claims which are not supported by the overwhelming majority of medical professionals around the globe.

Wrath because a pregnant woman and her unborn child needs the safest advice possible.
Wrath because you are pushing an agenda of fear (miscarriage) with anti vax messaging.

Of course a woman should read widely and hear all pros and cons : but this needs to come from the most regulated, safe and robustly tested sources : not fringe pseudoscience that has been pulled apart again and again for : incorrect analysis, bias, strong political links, cherry picking, misrepresentation etc etc etc

Ah, one of our Manx AV chums. Sadly your body can get inflammation cascade and die. Your placenta can get filled with microclots and baby dies. The vaccines are reasonably protective in both these situations.

Yes I have followed up their fake claims - there is no evidence that vaccines cause postpartum hemorrhage, miscarriage, or stillbirth. I'm not sure why pointing this out is "bizzare" - it's been the case for all their misinformation about COVID & vaccines.

It is reasonable to be frustrated that you are targeting pregnant women with fake claims, which coerces them out of making an informed choice. You are contributing to prevenatable harm.

And to say that what HART say is unevidenced is frankly bizarre.

So many posters have pointed out there is no evidence behind HARTs claims. I've personally followed loads of them back to the source - as I've said multiple times, it is always the case that they are taking a statistic, sentence or study out of context @vinegarasacleaner. You just choose to ignore any replies to your posts.

There is absolutely no evidence that the SARS-COV-2 vaccines cause the side effects they're listing - it is repugnant to be pushing the fake claim on a parenting forum that you're risking stillbirth by having this vaccine when all the evidence we have suggests it protects against it (and many other pregnancy complications).

Don't you think the increased rate of miscarriage and stillbirths since 2021 is due to actual Covid - the live one that enters your body - rather than the vaccine? There is scientific evidence that catching Covid during pregnancy increases the chances of stillbirth. Why not go with what's been proven rather than make spurious correlations?

I didn't want to click on this link, but ... yep. This is based on an old report. The rate of miscarriage, stillbirth and infant death is no different to the normal rate.

Much better sources exist than this.

For anyone who has a spare 30 mins, this is a very interesting read. https://disinformationchronicle.substack.com/p/transparency-and-financials-conflicts

I just don't understand the relevance @AreYouVeryAnti ? Yup funding conflicts have and continue to be a huge issue in research.

People have pointed out to you that the current recommendation has been informed by numerous independent sources - different countries, institutes, funders, bodies, including charities who look into pregnancy loss and complications.

In addition this body of evidence (all from independent streams) has been reviewed independently by all sorts of bodies/countries - e.g., NHS, RCOG, HSA in the UK, all the equivalents globally, and they have all come to the same conclusion - this vaccination should be recommended in pregnancy. This includes bodies whose only interest is in supporting pregnant women and neonatal health like RCOG.

This process has been explained on the thread quite a few times, and it's why yes it does seem like a stretch to suggest ALL this research, ALL these people are somehow compromised and biased.

You are acting as if the recommendation comes from a single document from Pfizer, when this couldnt be further from the truth and again I just think it's pretty bad form to spam a thread like this with scary cryptic hints that aren't relevant to the specific issue.

it does seem like a stretch to suggest ALL this research, ALL these people are somehow compromised and biased.

One of my DDs carries out infectious diseases research in an academic setting. I think she would be quite surprised to learn that she is some sort of 'agent' for Big Pharma or shady government organisation. And it's offensive to suggest that all such researchers are part of some global conspiracy or 'group think' which wants keep people from knowing the truth - most scientific researchers I have met want exactly the opposite.