Really worried about family member's Covid-focused anxiety/agoraphobia

[teelizzy]

That really. She lives in another country that non-citizens/permanent residents couldn't go to until early this year. Her first baby was born in May 2020 during her local city's biggest and scariest Covid surge but she lives in a nice house in a fairly remote rural location. She could have travelled to our home country last summer but didn't because she was too worried about the baby catching Covid. Nothing we said could calm her so the trip was abandoned.
Bottom line, she's had another baby in July 2022 and is still living in 2020-style lockdown. She insisted that her mum "quarantine" for 5 days before staying and house rules were no shopping (everything is delivered and sanitised) no in person socialising and her mum was asked not to leave the house. Neither her 2.5 yo DD1 or 3 month DS has been in contact with anyone other than DM, DF and one DGM since birth.

I'm visiting the nearby city next month and had said I'd love to visit making it clear that I have a car and will stay elsewhere.

She's sent a lovely but bonkers message saying they're "super distancing" so though they really miss us we can't visit them. Maybe next April when the younger child has had all his vaccinations

I'm so sad. I looked after this family member from when she was a baby, there's no dispute or rift, she's just terrified of Covid. With no good reason, no-one is anything like CEV and she isn't anti vaccination.

@blondieminx are you seriously saying that it is the right thing to do to keep small children totally and utterly excluded from the outside world because of covid risk?! For their whole lives until they are 5 and old enough for vaccination??

Social services sounds really extreme.
Firstly a 3 month old not having contact with the wider world beyond 3 loving carers is not a big deal. The 2.5 year old not having seen anyone other than 3 adults is a much harder pill to swallow. But honestly how accurate is your understanding OP? Has the 2.5 year old really not seen anyone at all???! Has the 2.5 year old gone to parks/fields/playgrounds?? Nowhere?? it's really a lot to believe and surely there is more to this.

I would take the time to really understand where she is and what she is experiencing - it may not be as black and white as she has indicated in her message about your visit. I think the suggestion that you made to see her in the manner you suggested would allow you to at least first hand understand what is going on. If her answer is still no you cannot meet, I would talk to her mum and husband or do a long video call/calls with her. Just don't jump to social services without understanding it could do so much damage, and the odds are something is lost in your understanding. If not, this is an extreme situation and not at all about your visit but rather about getting her major support and that must come from those closest to her - so again talk to them.

Gosh that is awful. The 2.5 year old could well be facing lifelong consequences from that level of isolation. I never say this but I would consider contacting the authorities, or at least seeking advice from the NSPCC. I know your family member isn't in the UK, but the NSPCC might be able to give some advice as to the seriousness, that would give you some idea of where to go.

We were much stricter than many of our friends for a lot longer and it can be a hard habit to break.

That said, we started using public transport ahead of a fair few of our friends (all drivers tbf) I know people who still avoid it now.

I think if you can go to see her outdoors and tested then that's a good start. I found though it felt weird at first I instantly became more relaxed and reverted to hugging. It's not necessarily feeding into the delusion but providing important contact.

I would gently try to introduce the issues isolation presents for children, their immune systems and their overall development.

Some countries that have stayed very strict simply don't have the infrastructure to deal with a large outbreak.

@RebeccaCloud9 No, that wasn’t what I said. Which is why I didn’t put that in my post.

Thank you to all who have responded. It took a while for the thread to get going and I hadn't checked back for a few days.

I do understand where people suggesting contacting authorities are coming from, unfortunately it's not an option in the country where she lives. It's a developed country but there are no basic universal perinatal and child health services of the type we're familiar with.

The good news is that we've agreed a visit with what I know are utterly over the top social distancing measures and have made it clear that I don't expect to come inside or have physical contact with the kids. I haven't tried to argue the position because due to distance the easiest thing for her to do is say no.

I'm still really concerned about her and the goal of this is to at least engage with her and get some understanding of where she is at.

I've reflected on the fact that because we live in a big city that was hit hard (London) we've got a different perspective. The whole family had had Covid by the time vaccinations started, we all got vaccinated and yet when we visited family in my home country and a friend of mine who lives on a large rural property the fact that we were from a perceived cesspit of infection and disease was viewed as a risk in itself. Which has all ebbed away once everyone else caught Covid.

I've had massive anxiety about covid. I have gradually come out of it at my own pace. I am still uncomfortable in crowded indoor spaces (going to the cinema is just not something that fulls me with joy for example) but other than that I am pretty much back to normal.

I have to say if people over pressured me or tried to make me feel small it set me back about 10 paces.

Baby steps like the outdoor meetings are really the way forward. Once they become comfortable I moved to outdoor but less distanced. Then indoor small groups or very quiet places.

In the summer I was at the national children's museum. I didn't love it but I did it for my kids sake.

In the UK we have been hit massively hard and we have had to become accustomed rather quickly in the wake of a government that didn't give a toss. Other countries took a different view and it is reasonable to expect that they are coming out the other side at a very different time and rate.

I am so sad and furious that this has been done to people.

This is total nonsense and you sound as bad as OPs cousin to be honest.

Children have always been at very very very low risk of this virus that is mild for the majority.

They are being harmed hugely by being isolated, both physically and mentally.

@AgainstTheOddsNo2 thanks for confirming that the approach I'm taking is more likely to help. Good luck on your own journey.

I’d second this. I also struggled massively and it’s been baby steps and gentleness from friends that’s enabled me to get back to some sense of normality. Talk to her gently find out what’s going on for her and if she has any idea what the root cause of her anxiety is. CBT was key to me too. There are many people who were very triggered by the pandemic as it brought back previous trauma so be kind. It’s also much harder to get back to normal if you’re in a situation where you can continue to stay at home. I was in a situation like this and it made it much harder as the ‘threat’ hadn’t gone away. Hopefully you can get her to open up and provide support but try not to judge as this will alienate her.

Also it’s about baby steps starting with outdoor meet ups and gradually building up. I found if I pushed myself too far I set myself back. For me normality for my children has been the driving force behind me pushing myself to do things out of my comfort zone. Sometimes this has meant my DH taking the children to do things I didn’t yet feel ready to do.

I’d also add that it’s a lonely place to be and she’ll be very conscious of being judged.

Surely she must have had medical care during her pregnancy and when in labour?

And the kids must have had medical appointments at some point.

What about shopping etc?

So they family must be interacting with others in society at some points.

She sounds extremely unwell and needs care from a mental health team.

I feel extremely sorry for these kids. They aren't living just existing.

I was wondering - if we replaced the words mental illness with a physical illness would some people’s responses be different? I’ve had, and still do have more or less, persistent anxiety and depression that despite years of treatment and lots of effort, still waxes and wanes at times. I’m old now and recognise that responses like ‘get a grip’ ‘pull your socks up’ etc are useless and shaming responses. When young, those sorts of responses made me feel like I was worthless.

She’s a young mum with two young children and very likely she is struggling to do her best by them. As we all do/did. Of course she needs help - and understanding. Hopefully she’s getting this from her husband and her family now.

I think arranging to meet her outside at a ‘safe’ distance is a wonderful start OP. The more people she knows care about her, without judgement, the quicker she will be able to get herself on a road to recovery.

Also, if she’s in Australia, for some people here covid is more of a problem this year than the two previous ones. This year we are catching up to the rest of the world in infection numbers in proportion to the population. So far, covid fatalities in Australia for 2022 have been much higher than 2020, 2021 combined.

The website ‘Beyond Blue’ has forums and information about how to access help I believe. (Beyond Blue began in Australia but the website has grown beyond Australian borders) Her local GP is also a good place to seek help (although if she’s living in a rural area in Australia there may not be a local GP. ) But there is Telehealth with a GP. And there are Zoom consultations with specialists. It’s just working out how to go about accessing them. Each state is a bit different.

Also, as her youngest is only a few months old perhaps she, along with her partner, can make contact with the health care team /midwife/doctor she had through pregnancy and delivery. I’m thinking that many countries would have a similar setup in this regard. They are most likely equipped to offer her assistance. I’m thinking that they’d already have had birth parents seeking this help with these sorts of problems, especially this year.

This mum has s 2.5 year old and a Bub. There has never been a time without covid since she gave birth.

She is clearly very unwell and she needs to hear that. Her actions are so far from what everyone else is doing right now, but she has convinced herself that she is the normal one and everyone else is wrong. By agreeing to pander to her anxieties by distancing and whatever you are just reinforcing them, as are the rest of her family.

I think the only way forward is to get the husband onside and try to help him to challenge his wife's behaviour and get her to see just how much damage she is doing to her children.

Thanks all

@Redfrangipani not Australia, it's the US. No basic antenatal, postnatal or early months community healthcare, so you can opt out if you have means to do so.

Since I last wrote she has enrolled her toddler at a kindergarten and is making some progress I think.

That's positive news.

Enrolling her toddler into kindergarten is definately progress.

Recovery - a lot of it is about baby steps. Her baby steps. Challenging herself a little bit at a time. I wish her well.

Just wondering, how do they work? Make money?

Coming from someone who has had and is getting over agrophobia due to covid (myself) threatening her will not work. It will make her more scared and cut u off completely. Is there any way you can share concerns with her mother or husband try and get her help. Having agrophobia is not a quick fix. Imagine having to overcome your worst possible nightmare. She needs mental health support this should be encouraged by someone she trusts. Yes it's sad her children are suffering, to her she is protecting them but in reality a lot of damage is being done... All im saying is tread carefully unfortunately there's no quick fix to agrophobia but there's always hope if someone has left the love and support

Thank you all and @Ladymama12 I am sorry I didn't respond immediately, your perspective was extremely helpful.

Well we visited over two days - luckily the weather was glorious so sitting outside wasn't a trial. Think Summer of 2020 - physically distanced, loo nearest the door politely pointed out, window wide open.

She's made a bit of progress- the toddler is now in playgroup with 5 other kids and she took her to a shop to get some shoes fitted.

I think a whole lot of things are tangled up together - she had challenges conceiving and as the older child was born in May 2020 has never experienced'normal' with a newborn. I think there is an element of believing she's doing the right and responsible thing but a need to feel in control.

She's a SAHM and her DH is wealthy and works from home.

I feel sorry for their cleaner - every door and window in the house has to be left open while she is working. With an N95 mask on.