Have people's opinions changed?

[MassiveOverthinker]

Just wondering really, if the last few months have changed people's opinion on how we managed covid in this country.

Anyone wondering if maybe fewer restrictions would've been better and if more draconian ones (often called for) were unnecessary. Anyone wondering if we needed to close schools, swab and isolate our kids, test and trace etc etc.

Or do people generally feel we did what was necessary at the time and are only okayish now because of weaker variants and higher vaccination levels?

Anyone feel less angry at the rule breakers, those who don't want to be vaccinated etc?

If it all happened again, do you think your response to restrictions would be the same, or would you be a bit more inclined to think "sod that for a laugh".

(Asking for a friend).

The local authority said no video lessons, so it didn't happen. They were directed to using MS Teams, some teachers set work, others didn't, it was mostly "do this if you want to" but nothing was ever marked, no feedback given on any work submitted. So the kids felt it pointless.

In the second December-Easter 2021 things were a little better - still hardly any video teaching, my oldest child was in his final year at school at that time and had a few sessions with his Chemistry class but the younger ones had nothing. Lots of concerns raised by teaching unions about staff appearing on video even though the kids weren't on video, ever. So the Local Authority said they didn't have to. At least in the second lockdown work was being set and marked online but it was still pretty crap. Especially as I had kids doing subjects like Chemistry and Biology which I have zero training in. The whole thing was such a shit show and schools in my part of Scotland are still not back to normal - they still have all the banners up saying wear masks and keep distance, no parents allowed in school at all for any reason. No parents evenings (not even online), no sports days, no school shows.

Scotland have lost the plot.

What I find terrifying is that the SNP seem addicted to banning stuff, and people seem to accept that petty rules can be imposed on their day to day lives. Like banning alcohol on trains "because of covid", like how a glass of lemonade on the 17:45 to Glasgow really helps prevent the transmission of a virus when compared to a glass of wine anyway, but now its permanent under the SNP's temperance drive.

I didn't things were still this batshit in Scotland.

What the fuck are they thinking?

a glass of lemonade on the 17:45 to Glasgow

And you’ll be lucky if it’s even running, due to the current train service cuts which are in turn due to stalling train driver training Because Covid…

Scotland is a pretty big place and that doesn't apply to the whole country.

For example, I just got back from my teenagers high school with them. After a long period of absence, they were getting shown round the building, seeing their new rooms and meeting new teachers. We saw barely anyone in masks (just a handful who I assume are wearing them out of choice), other families were on visits, the visitor log looked as busy as it was pre-covid, kids were all bunched up in groups in their classrooms as always. All practical lessons were being carried out as expected.

Shows and sports days are going ahead at local schools. Some parents evenings have remained online, because this is what works best for these particular schools for the time being. The primary school I'm involved with had a recent online parents evening, which people bitched and moaned about and didn't attend. Now they've scheduled some open evenings to meet the new Head Teacher and take a look around the school building and meet teachers (new building was opened weeks before lockdown) and guess what? They've had NINE responses from parents/carers. From a school roll of over 500 pupils.

Some parents evenings have remained online, because this is what works best for these particular schools for the time being.

We haven't even had online. We have not had ANY sort of parents evening since January 2020.

That really is shockingly bad @KnitPurlKnitPurl We didn't have live teaching (bar a couple of live language lessons and cookery lessons), but did have a consistent approach to providing work, feedback and contact with/from teachers. Our high school even emailed parents and carers with a run down each week of which topics their children would be covering that week, for each class and year group, so parents could remain involved when surly teens wouldn't necessarily inform them. That's something I would really have liked to continue once they were back fully at school tbh, was very helpful and informative.

No option for any sort of parent/teacher meeting is ridiculous though. What is their reasoning for that? Was that for all year groups?

I agree with this.

The fact that Scotland's covid rates were higher when we still had mask mandates (and certainly in my area a fairly compliant population) than englands were with no masks certainly brings the question of how well mask do (certainly the ones most people were using) at preventing the spread of infection.

And I agree with the point about the wholly ridiculous restriction of movement between areas. I had to leave my la area for work - essential, but even though I was in a different area for an allowed purpose I wasn't allowed to go the shops. I was supposed to literally drive past 3 supermarkets and travel 10 miles out of my way to go to a supermarket. I think not.

Schooling was awful. We did have online provision however it was essentially revision and not teaching, we are feeling this now with exams and our children will pay the price for many years.

Masks have only just been stopped in schools here. My eldest did all his prelims wearing a face mask.

I am in East Dunbartonshire which is one of the smallest local authority areas in Scotland. Compared with what has been happening in other areas, schools do seem to have been very very cautious/conservative in their approach.

we have had regular progress reports back from school on my daughter who is almost 17 and sitting her Highers (uni entrance qualifications) this year. The school always do say "please contact us if you wish to discuss any aspect of your child's progress". But there is no way of a parent contacting an individual teacher. You have to phone the office and leave a message. We can't email the teachers and it's just really awkward - I would of course contact a teacher if I had real concerns but I don't. I just want to sit down in front of the teacher and hear how she's REALLY doing.

In the second lockdown we did get more information about what the topics the kids should be studying that week/month but for many subjects it was pointless - the information about Advanced Higher Chemistry and Biology could as well have been written in Dutch for all I understood, and I couldn't "support my child" with her learning about (for example) the different options for layouts of a theatre for Drama as she knows more than I do. Plus of course there's the little matter of my own job.

It's a lot better now, but we kept restrictions in Scotland for SO much longer without reason. For a long time in summer 2020 we were averaging one covid death PER WEEK. And yet we were still banned from each other's houses, wearing our masks, not supposed to be travelling etc etc etc.

It's a lot better now, but we kept restrictions in Scotland for SO much longer without reason. For a long time in summer 2020 we were averaging one covid death PER WEEK. And yet we were still banned from each other's houses, wearing our masks, not supposed to be travelling etc etc etc.

Not in Scotland so I can't give locally specific views, but my worry is that stuff like this undermines confidence and trust in the future.

I think it already has @AppleandRhubarbTart as census returns are peculiarly low in Scotland, despite ongoing adverts threatening all sorts if it’s not returned.

Trust is hard to get back. And threats lose their power if misused or false.

www.liverpool.ac.uk/law-and-social-justice/blog/partygate-lockdown-justice/

She's got a point.

On the subject specifically of mind changes, presume we've now all seen the outcome of the police investigations into Partygate. Obviously the existence of all the gatherings themselves has had an impact on public trust, even before we knew what would happen. Next question is whether the inevitability of one rule for some and one rule for others does too, and to what extent.

twitter.com/RandallNortham/status/1527415449289474048?s=20&t=YtDTlVUayOgTrNKQkDJFeA

Randall Northam
@RandallNortham
·
23h
Dear

@metpoliceuk
Carrie Johnson escapes £50 fine for her ABBA party.
A reminder that a teenager was fined over £2000 for meeting OUTSIDE in a group of more than two people, and named & shamed.
Please explain

Fuckers!

www.itv.com/news/anglia/2022-02-01/student-given-2k-lockdown-fine-wants-apology-and-refund-after-sue-gray-report

It's important we understand that uneven enforcement of the covid regulations, different rules for some people than others, was always inevitable.

Obv this is a particularly stark example of it, but even had our government not engaged in multiple illegal gatherings in Downing fucking Street, or they had but we'd not found out, there'd still have been people who weren't sanctioned for things others were penalised for. The state always exercises power disproportionately against those with least power, it's structural and then there's also just dumb luck.

It's like with drugs policy. We don't have the resources to police or enforce it properly, so you end up with some unlucky people getting caught and punished, others never being noticed. And if people who have power, influence and money are amongst the noticed, they're much more likely to be able to be able to use those things to mitigate the consequences. The very system of fines also meant that people who had money spare to pay immediately for an easy life were advantaged over people who didn't, even when they'd done the exact same thing.

TLDR- lockdown and restrictions made stuff like this inevitable. When you choose lockdown, you also choose this. Can't have one without the other. If people still think it was justified as causing least harm, that's ok, but you need to factor this into your downsides pile.

In summer 2020 one of my friends was very upset. Her teenage daughter - aged 17 - had gathered with 5 other friends in someone's garden around a chiminea to mark the release of the Higher exam results. A neighbour called the police about the unauthorised "party", the police turned out mob handed and escorted the girls home.

No fine, but the girl was mortified and so, so upset by it all.

That was the point there was 1 death a week in Scotland. Ridiculous.

Did she know which neighbour it was? None of mine would've or did pull a stunt like that, not least because none of them were sticking to the rules either, but if they had I'd have made sure they regretted it.

I don;t think so. It wasn't one of my friend's neighbours - her daughter was at a friend's house, and it was one of those neighbours who called.

I also have another friend who lives in a small village and told me that in the first lockdown there was a man in their road noting on paper when people left their house for a walk, to go to the shop or walk the dog, and pulled them up on it if he felt they had been out too long.

Honestly, some people really did lose their minds. And still have - I was talking to a woman last week who said "she could cry" when she saw people not wiping the handles of the trolley when they went into the supermarket.

Honestly, some people really did lose their minds. And still have - I was talking to a woman last week who said "she could cry" when she saw people not wiping the handles of the trolley when they went into the supermarket.

Wow. This is the sort of thing I was talking about earlier in the thread when I mentioned the government having exploited people's anxieties and not given enough thought to longer term consequences. Someone having to live with that level of fear 26 months on must have struggled considerably and has plenty more of it ahead of her.

Honestly, some people really did lose their minds. And still have - I was talking to a woman last week who said "she could cry" when she saw people not wiping the handles of the trolley when they went into the supermarket.

She'd have had a hissy fit at me. I can't remember when I last wiped my trolley handle at the supermarket. Maybe a few times when they had a marshall outside watching things and supervising the queue (OMG, remember the queues outside supermarkets!).

Personally I do think lockdown was an overreaction and will have caused far more harm than covid in the long term.

I’m not saying we should’ve done nothing but I do think there should’ve been a ore balanced approach- ie not prioritising covid above all else.

Schools should not have closed and things that could take place safely like outdoor dining, socialising etc should’ve been actively encouraged to support the economy and mental health rather than being prohibited.

Equally the NHS should not have been in lockdown. Screenings, GP services should have continued as normal.

Is anyone worried that the media are pushing a fear campaign around monkeypox? I fear that a precedent has been set in how things are reported. The language used is exactly the same as that used during covid..

Wow. This is the sort of thing I was talking about earlier in the thread when I mentioned the government having exploited people's anxieties and not given enough thought to longer term consequences.

I completely agree. I know of people with pre-existing mental health problems, most notably one with OCD around hand-washing and cleanliness, whose conditions have notably worsened because of the Covid messaging. And, of course, they weren't able to get treatment...because of Covid measures.

I also know people who hadn't previously suffered from mental health problems but for whom Covid has fried their circuits. It's almost worse for them because they don't know how to cope with a mental health issue, having had no prior experience and therefore chance to develop coping strategies or even understand what's happening to them. And of course all of this has come at a time when they will struggle to get any help unless they can afford private treatment.

Covid measures were - and still are - treated as if there were little or no downsides.