Scared of son starting nursery due to covid

[Bongbangbing]

I acknowledge that I've been incredibly lucky and due to this and quite a bit of sacrifice my family has been able to mostly stay at home during COVID. We still go to as many events as we can that are completely outside and did go to some inside things over summer when cases were low. However we haven't been at any indoor events or families houses since Oct last year.

I live with my very elderly mother, I have a son too young to be vaccinated, and I am cev with ongoing extreme shortness of breath.

My son is 3 and due to start the nursery attached to the local school in September. I don't need him to attend (I will be on maternity leave) but I really feel like the social aspect is something he has most missed out on. He's very advanced in every area but I can't provide the experience of socialisation with others his age. He's a great kid and happily wears a mask when we have to go somewhere indoors but I can't expect him to be the only kid at nursery with a mask on. I'm super worried about myself/my mother and the chance of long COVID in general for the whole family. Please don't tell me that we just 'need to learn to live with it', this is something still killing hundreds a day and affecting so many lives with long COVID. I guess I want to hear from people with similar worries to me?

My son's speech and language is really outstanding. I understand the issue for nursery etc and would never expect him to wear one at nursery, but feel he doesn't lose out for five minutes indoors.

Interesting. I've read very different statistics to that. If yours are right (I'm not saying they aren't) I'd be more inclined to agree with you. Again my son wears it for like five minutes so drinking etc is not an issue.

Other things don't worry me. The IFR of covid doesn't worry me as much as the unknown long term effects. I don't know of people catching the other diseases and then ending up with long terms issues.

Again I agree that nursery will benefit my son. I want him to go.

I suppose in question 2, I wasn't so much equating covid with flu, as getting at the point that viruses have always circulated that place people in danger. In December 2019 a friend of a friend's healthy mother died from flu, and an acquaintance's toddler ended up in ICU with flu and was very lucky to escape. I think we've lost sight a little of the level of risk we used to consider normal.

For example, I don't think cancer patients were typically told to keep their children off school even though a cold could be fatal because it wouldn't be proportionate.

Thanks to everyone for replying. I don't mean to come across as defensive or having my mind already set. I think it's useful to talk to people with different opinions. Its a difficult situation for everyone to be put in, having to risk it just to go about life. I think the biggest difference in opinion is that I honestly don't think my son has lost out on anything so far, although I feel differently about the importance of nursery at 3.

I agree I need to think about what happens if nothing changes. I'm not worried about other diseases in the same way.

My friend is a reception teacher and she said this current intake is like nothing she has seen before due to COVID.

They have missed out - it isnt having a go at anyone or anyone decision making because everyone has made choices within a horrible set of parameters for the right reasons. And for the current set of reception it was an awful thing to miss that amount of nursery school.

Isn't that what makes COVID different? We don't seem to be able to hold immunity to it in the same way as with other viruses. People can get reinfected in a very short time span.

No, that’s similar to a lot of respiratory viruses, that’s mostly how they work. If you get a cold tomorrow, it’s probably some virus that you’ve had before. But it’s less likely to make you ill because you’ve had it before.

I think it’s worth thinking over a bit why covid has been so dangerous for us. It’s because it’s a new virus, we had no immunity to it, so it caused a lot of damage. But it’s not because it’s a totally new kind of virus unlike anything we’ve seen before. It’s unlikely to behave totally differently to other viruses it’s similar to (there’s other common human coronaviruses that probably caused similar levels of illness when they were new). Like long covid - yes it’s not a nice thing to have, but other viruses do have long-term effects too (I have a friend who got ME from ‘long flu’). Plus given about 80% of the UK population have now had covid, we’d know by now if it was going to knock us all out with long covid.

My youngest is prone to illnesses of all sorts (no medical condition, just seems to be bad luck 🤷‍♀️) and was ill for a week or so as a baby with covid. But that was a week’s worth of illness, compared to the months and months it took to get peer social skills and confidence in a nursery setting and various developmental issues back on track after lockdown. If I had a choice it would absolutely be nursery.

It is a frightening decision. I vividly remember discussing it in May 2020 when preschool was about to reopen and having to talk about sending DD back and whether this might "kill Daddy". This was a long long time before we even knew effective vaccines would be available. Both of us were absolutely clear that we had to send her to preschool though as she was struggling at home without other children around so much.

It was scary but it's been absolutely the right decision for us.

Again, thank you for taking the time to reply. Im not going to be the only one with a similar mindset and it's definitely making me think hard when reading some of these replies.

@Bongbangbing What does your consultant say? Have you specifically been told to continue to shield? Some CEV people have and some haven't, it depends on your condition and risk profile. Some were added to the original shielded risk and later found to be less at risk than first assumed.

You know, I think this is the case across society. I'm a lecturer and we've had a very difficult year this year as students just don't... Get it. Studying, independent learning, general expectations that we have for them and are reasonable for them to have of us, sitting exams, the whole shebang. And I saw a comedian on Twitter the other day saying audiences are more aggressive than before. It's like we've all forgotten how to live our lives properly.

@JenniferBarkley I've definitely seen this widely reported and discussed by educators at all levels. It's really alarming and sad.

No I haven't been told to shield at this time. At the same time, I'm awaiting further investigation (that they aren't keen to do while I'm heavily pregnant) as to what else might be going on in my lungs so I feel less safe than if I had a clear diagnosis.

Are you definitely classed as CEV? Or is that your own assessment? It would be very unusual to be deemed CEV without a diagnosis (I'm not saying it's impossible, but rare!).

I used to teach before this, and all of my colleagues are saying the same. Students seem years younger than they are and are unprepared for the stage of education they are at. I think the effects will be felt on society for a long time for sure.

However for me personally I don't think this would be relevant to my situation. I struggle to see how not doing indoor activities with my son or not sending him to nursery between 1-3 would have the same affect. He's very advanced.

Yes previously I have been told I am based on the older list(though not on the new anti viral list). The ongoing investigation is for additional illness since late last year.

Vaccination. Am I wrong in thinking that the flu vaccination is a lot more effective at preventing long term issues from flu than COVID? Genuine question. Also for the rest of my family it is the unexpected long term effects I'm worried about more than the immediate dealing with COVID symptoms if that makes sense.

There's starting to be some good evidence around vaccine effectiveness against long Covid - UKHSA have done a good review of this. Two doses appear to reduce the incidence of long Covid by around half in those with confirmed infection, and VE against long Covid was highest in over 60s.

However for me personally I don't think this would be relevant to my situation. I struggle to see how not doing indoor activities with my son or not sending him to nursery between 1-3 would have the same affect. He's very advanced.

But this is about what he would miss out on if he doesnt go to Nursery.

Plus they are a wide range of things you can be advanced in. This isnt about whether you are advanced or up there in terms of speech etc but about socialisation etc and figuring out how to share, be in a group all of that kind of stuff.

But the truth is COVID has had a huge effect on everyone - my DD is year 8 and you can see it in them as well. All age ranges have suffered immensely with this - its one of biggest reasons that mitigations have ended (economy being another)

Unless you stay in and never leave the house, you will get covid.

covid will be around wheh he starts school, what will you do then?

and don't make your 3 year old wear a mask it's cruel and unnecessary l

You keep saying he’s very “advanced” and I am thinking you mean he is book smart, perhaps he has a great vocabulary and is very able with numbers. Perhaps he has super fine/gross motor skills.

However we live in a social world where being a social being counts for a lot and it’s those micro interactions with his peers that will be so valuable and quite hard to measure and observe, but they will form him.

I can tell you my now y8 child, not having the year 6-7 transition and the “usual” step into secondary school has had a impact. And the impact we are just seeing now in the cohort as a group and in some of the individuals.

i don’t know what to tell you- it feels very serious and life or death for you. I wonder if you can speak to a medical professional to feel more reassured and more informed.

And please don’t read this as glib, but we only have now. Today. Tomorrow might never come.

(And reading the study in more detail, the protection also appears much higher against longer-lasting symptoms.)

I agree with this.
I totally understand your concerns and I think they are valid, but it's so important for your child to start growing and developing some independence and interaction with other people outside of their home. A completely sheltered life could be really damaging for them in the long run.
Can you speak to your GP/HV?

I agree - mine is the same.

And the current Year 5 are far more cheeky and grown up because they were given a lot more leeway.

1-3 year olds have massively been affected by all of this - seeing people in masks all of the shutting down of stuff. It is no one fault and as parents we did our best but my two (13 and 9) have certainly been impacted a lot.

@Bongbangbing
Completely understand how stressful this is for you. I'm CEV due to immunosuppression and although I've had all my jabs (4 of them) I'm in the group that one of my immunosuppressants makes it very hard to form an immune response.
I've got a 6yo and 13yo and both have been going to school when they have been open. Only the older one wore a mask up until recently. There has been several outbreaks at both schools some with some very sick adults and children. The worst was a double dose of gastroenteritis and Covid that lots of people seemed to get together. DH is also a hospital consultant, not only looking after covid patients in isolation at the height of the lockdowns but also now in a hospital where since the restrictions were lifted it's rife for both staff and patients.
So far we've avoided it but it does play on my mind. I still wear a mask, we all test regularly and I know I have fast access to anti virals if I do catch it. We have a plan for if anyone in the family gets it but I also can't get too stressed about it or we wouldn't be able to live our lives.
I think the best thing is to try to take control of the aspects you can and try not to stress about the ones you can't and plan for what happens if you do get it.

What is the alternative? There really isn’t one. Your mother is very elderly but presumably triple vaccinated. What is your health condition can I ask? Your only options are to carry on as you are, which isn’t healthy for your son. Or take your chances, probably catch it at some point, and depending on your medical condition you will probably be fine and so will your mother. I’ve got covid at the moment, CV, it feels like a bad cold. I didn’t go out of my way to avoid it at all.

@Bongbangbing

People are dying with covid not of covid mostly. Only yesterday I study from Scotland said 75% of those in intensive care with covid were there for other reasons and the covid was incidental

However for me personally I don't think this would be relevant to my situation. I struggle to see how not doing indoor activities with my son or not sending him to nursery between 1-3 would have the same affect. He's very advanced.*
*
But is he able to cope for half an hour without you there? Can he self regulate and accept that mummy will come back after a few hours? Early years practitioners like myself are finding a lot of toddlers have a much higher difficulty to separate from their parents, and this separation anxiety means they can't interact with, or even play alongside their peers at all.

Your alternative is to home school. If you have the teaching skills and can afford it, it might be something to consider. But don't keep him from other children.

I think your plan to start him at nursery at age 3 is great. He will get poorly from the missed years of socialising with his peers. But you are home so can give him the rest days he needs to recover. And the socialisation and emotional resilience built in nursery is so important.