Masks and old people

[Ritascornershop]

Recently I went to tea with a friend and her 95 year old
mum. 20 minutes in another friend joined us. Up to that point no one was wearing a mask. The late arrival friend wore one and said that she was wearing it as she’d been in shops and at work and maybe had been exposed without knowing it.

95 year old waved her statement away and said “whatever”. When the masked friend got up to leave my friend’s mum said “let me see your face. I want to see your smile while I still can.” She was clearly a bit irritated.

Masked friend was surprise and briefly pulled her mask down.

I’m wondering: what’s the etiquette here? If an old person is still very sharp should we not ask their preference? Or proceed as normal before masking until and unless they say they’d like us to cover up?

I thought it was presumptuous and (given that the masked friend has also recently masked when she and another friend came round mine last month), possibly something she wants for herself as she’s doing it when not around the elderly.

If your friend feels more comfortable for wearing the mask, then the elder should have respected this.
The young spent a long time wearing masks and putting their lives on stop to protect the elders and I think this should be respected.

I don't know.

Assuming 95 year old is vaccinated here, I'd probably walk in with mask in and then ask her preference to keep on/off.

But also, weren't you all massless whilst eating and drinking?

My hairdresser is still wearing a mask. She says each week she will stop, but she hasn’t. She has a lot of elderly clients, some barely make it through the door. She sees 10 clients a day, so 40 in a week and she’s worried more about passing it on unknowingly than catching it herself.

My dad is in his late 80s and can’t abide people wearing masks around him.

He’s in a care home and the staff have to. It drives him insane. We have to wear them in communal areas, but don’t in his room.

He always asks why the hell people are trying to protect him against death and asks them how much longer they would like him to live anyway. He said he’d prefer to die of covid before his dementia gets so bad he doesn’t know who we are.

Honestly, when I take him out, I have to stop him from licking handrails. He saw covid as his way out from the torture of dementia. Never seen anybody as incandescent with rage when he tested positive in hospital and he didn’t have a single symptom.

It's not just about how the other person feels. It's also about your friend and how she would feel if she found that she had passed it on.

I wear my mask because I see a lot of people, and have children in school, so I think I am more likely to have it than a lot of the people I see, and, the people I deal with are frequently vulnerable. I would feel really bad if I passed it on, even if they weren't really ill with it.

Your friend did not need to wear a mask. It is that simple.

We were ostensibly there for tea and biscuits but it was so soon after lunch the masked friend and my friend’s mum declined.

As far as passing it on, I think it unlikely anyone could say in this situation “I gave old Mrs W Covid”. She has visitors, anyone could potentially give her Covid.

And ya, like Kurtan’s dad, maybe she’s done. She’s still very sharp, but can barely walk and is dependent on others. She’s always been a very independent woman, it must be difficult.

@Topseyt

Your friend did not need to wear a mask. It is that simple.

But maybe she wanted to.

I don’t wear masks to avoid passing Covid on (not only for that I mean). I wear FFP2 masks, they protect me as well. I don’t care if someone is 5 or 95, I won’t take it off if I don’t want to. Rude of someone to ‘demand’ that others take their mask off.

Eileen, the friend was just wearing a cloth mask, nothing fancy.

I think at 95 she’s got the right to ask. Her daughter has moved far away and so we only see Mrs W about once a year when our friend is back in town. Mrs W may never see me or masked friend again. She’s known us for 50-odd years and if she’s like to remember our faces over the next year I think that’s understandable.

Oh that's different. Cloth masks are completely useless, so I'm with you on this one. Masked friend was not going to avoid passing anything on to Mrs W by wearing a cloth mask, that's just basic science knowledge.

A lot of people are pretty attached to the idea that cloth masks work … after all we were all told to wear masks for 2 years, any old male will do. I was always pretty dubious about that and whipped them off the moment I got outside (& when alone in the staff room sort of thing).

Even cloth masks provide some protection, they are just less effective. If someone wants to protect themselves and others that is considerate. Demanding that someone take a mask off is just rude - look at them through the window if that is what you want.

I can't imagine why anyone would object to another person wearing a mask.

I’m wearing a mask because I’ve decided to do so.
I’m nit wearing a mask for the convenience of others. So, for me, there is no difference between a 30yo and a 95yo so no étiquette to follow.

I do get that the 95yo would prefer to see people’s faces.
I also get that we’ve been told for two years to mask to protect OTHERS rather than ourselves so from the 95yo, it might feel condescending. Plus, they can chose what level of ‘danger’ they are happy o deal with too.

Basically, I think it’s a personal decision and there is no etiquette. Just accepting what other people have decided to do for themselves.

Fwiw if you were together for an afternoon tea, aka having something to eat/drink, inside, I don’t see the point if wearing a mask ‘to protect others’ when everyone else, including the 95yo doesn’t wear one.

Saying you will wear one to protect her sounds like virtue signalling in those circumstances tbh.

If one is wearing a mask (if possible a FPP2) to protect themselves, then no ine has anything to say about it Imo.

@CaptainMyCaptain

I can't imagine why anyone would object to another person wearing a mask.

Bet the old lady wouldn't have said anything if it was a man, but a woman exists purely so others can look at her pretty smiling face, of course.

OP your friend did nothing wrong, old lady was out of order if she sounded snippy with her comment otherwise maybe she was trying to be encouraging if she sounded kind. Your friend should do whatever she's comfortable with, legal restrictions have finished so it's her choice.

Mask protect other people they don’t necessarily protect you . I think for many it’s a comfort blanket.

@Ritascornershop

A lot of people are pretty attached to the idea that cloth masks work … after all we were all told to wear masks for 2 years, any old male will do. I was always pretty dubious about that and whipped them off the moment I got outside (& when alone in the staff room sort of thing).

A lot of people in countries like the UK have been misled by their governments and have been told to do things that go against scientific advice and official research.

Where I live, it didn’t take them many months to ban cloth masks and explain to every citizen why only an FFP2/3 mask or similar will be effective against infection. From a science point of view - not financial, not social or cultural - purely from a health perspective. Then they took money from XYZ departments and subsidised cheap proper masks for everybody.

If people are attached to a cloth mask they’ve either been lied to by stupid people in charge, and/or have never challenged what they hear on TV and done their own research to see if the scientific community backed something like cloth masks up. We’re not in April 2020 anymore when there was a shortage of PPE so you used what you had at home. Wearing a cloth mask shows either virtue signalling or a lack of critical thinking.

Even if that is true (which I doubt but I'm not going to argue with) would you dispute someone's right to wear a hat because you didn't think it was cold enough to wear one or rubber gloves for washing up because you don't think they're necessary?

I think the age thing is misleading.

I'm still wearing a mask and no, I'm not taking it off for anyone. I don't care how old they are.

The woman was rude expecting the OP's friend to remove hers in the same way people have been complaining for 2 years if asked to wear one.

I was in the UK briefly last week and found it surprising how many people are still wearing cloth ones. Even trying to get on the plane back with one when ffp2 only was specified.

I think the age is important. She is very aware she doesn’t have much longer and may never see either of us again. She also does not have a ton to do all day and if she wants the memory of seeing our faces then I can understand that.

In her younger days she was a nurse, is a very practical woman, and may well feel reminded of her infirmity by someone wearing a mask “to protect” her.

Personally I don’t like seeing masks as it reminds me that we spent 2 years being forced to wear them and being told to “follow the science”, yet when the health officials tell us we don’t need to, then the science doesn’t matter and people keep them on. I asked a different friend today when she’d feel okay about going in the shops without one and she said “maybe never”.

It's not just about how the other person feels. It's also about your friend and how she would feel if she found that she had passed it on

A couple of weeks ago we met some friends. We had masks on and friends said to take the stupid things off, so we did. Two days later we both tested positive. Two days after that friends tested positive and were unable to go on holiday the following weekend.

Now, I can't say for sure that we would not have passed it on to them had we kept our masks on but at least I would have known I had done all I reasonably could. The guilt I feel at making them miss their holiday is immense and they were certainly very short with us when they phoned to say they had now tested positive and couldn't go away. They have been quite ill.

And before anyone says they could have got it anywhere, they made it perfectly clear we were the only ones they knew with Covid and the timings were right.

Also, regarding cloth masks - have you tried coughing onto mirror without a mask and then with one. I think you will be surprised.

Wearing a mask protects other people remember, not the wearer. While a mask MAY provide some protection to the wearer. The reason why you wear a mask if to protect others if you choose to. Think about in Asian countries such as Japan prior to the virus most people who were unwell would wear a mask not to spread it, remember that folks.

@peaceinourtime that’s not true fir theFPP2 masks. These protect you as well as others.