Caught Covid at work and pregnant

[Mightbeokmightnot]

I’ve posted this in the staff room but had nothing so…

I’m currently 16 weeks pregnant and isolating because I caught covid at work (secondary school teacher).

I’d had a risk assessment done (which obviously didn’t work very well given I still caught covid). I’ve luckily not been too ill with it and I’m sure this will be down to being fully vaccinated and boosted.

However, given I managed to catch covid despite all the extra ‘measures’ they’d put in place to protect me (which were token tbh), I’m now feeling anxious about potentially having to be teaching face to face during my third trimester? Rather than feeling more relaxed because I’ve caught it and been ok it’s made me realise that catching it in my third trimester is a genuine possibility. Won’t my booster have worn off by 28 weeks? What if it affects me differently or my baby badly because of how far along I am?

I spoke to a midwife about WFH from 28 weeks today and was told ‘that’s a conversation between you and your employer, we can’t give any guidance at this time’.

AIBU to be feeling throughly p’d off that this is the situation vulnerable pregnant teachers are in or will it be ok?

Legally you can take maternity leave from 29 weeks, if you feel uncomfortable in the classroom look into this option. I took it at 34 weeks as I couldn't face the tube!

I'm usually a massive people pleaser/probably a bit of a martyr to the job so struggling with feeling so conflicted about this.

Please don't feel guilty for pushing for what you need. Safety for pregnant women during this time is very much a grey area. Yes the jabs are available but there is no specific data on how effective they are in preventing negative outcomes in pregnant women or for their babies. There isn't even a lot of information on how well they protect from omicron or for how long in the general non-pregnant population. Don't let people gaslight you into feeling like you are overly anxious or crazy for being worried. Some people may feel comfortable working in your situation, but if you don't it is not because you aren't thinking rationally. You are pregnant and we are still in a pandemic. I recently had a baby and did not feel comfortable at all at work. I pushed to wfh. I felt awful and so awkward at the time but sitting here now with baby on my lap I have no regrets as they are my absolute priority!! What helped me through it was to picture baby and remind myself that I wasn't doing it for me but for them. It's not selfish because you aren't doing it for yourself and no one is more important than your baby.

As you said yourself, women have been wfh or on paid leave in their third trimester since the pandemic began. Since then there has been much evidence that covid is particularly dangerous for pregnant women. There is very little evidence/data that pregnant women are at any less risk now then they have been previously. Do what feels right for you and don't let anyone tell you you are being silly!

Please also look at the website/social media for Pregnant Than Screwed.

Given the figures for omicron and being boosted, you will have a hard time proving your working conditions put you at significant risk.

There are figures for Omicron leading to reduced hospitalisations and deaths in the general population. When I was pregnant I was more concerned about the evidence for poorer birth outcomes -- eg babies being born prematurely/stillbirth or with growth restriction. There is evidence that even mild covid infection can lead to damage to the placenta that impacts on baby's growth and development. I'm not trying to scare pregnant women, but explain that concerns during pregnancy are specific and different to concerns about general clinical vulnerability.

I got covid at 16 weeks and hadn't had the booster yet but was fine. I do desk based job and am going back to the office next week. Hadn't entered my head to ask to stay at home and my job could could be easily done from home. I think you're worrying too much

@Frederica852 you work in a desk based job so the situation isn’t comparable

@Neverendingstory356 thank you for summing this up so eloquently

Thanks so much for sharing - the website looks really useful. I’m glad that you were able to advocate for yourself and baby and don’t regret it @Neverendingstory356

@Mightbeokmightnot I really want you to drown out all the people who are trying to completely invalid your fears and make this about anxiety rather than a total legitimate concern re covid and pregnancy.

A women who's pregnant right now is totally not worried about them, they are worried that their baby will have a poor outcome (which has already been proved hen before Bojos change - pregnant women were classed as clinically at risk of covid). And by poor outcome that's premature birth or stillborn. So yes of op gets covid she might be fine but her baby might not be. What risk would you all take with your children ? Would you all be lazie fair then ?

You can survive burying a child but as someone who's done it in the past, survive is a v low bar. More like doomed to live a half life. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

That lack of empathy shown on this thread will be the reason people leave teaching in droves, and may bring about more homeschooling (oh the irony)

Stop with the gaslighting. You wanna live your life crack on, stop trying to force your risk tolerance on to others.

OP I'm thinking of you 💐 thank you for all you do for our children.

Being infected is the best protection. Unless a new variant comes round that topples omicron, you’re incredibly safe

[quote Mightbeokmightnot]@Frederica852 you work in a desk based job so the situation isn’t comparable[/quote]
Why not? I get there on crowded train and then tube and work in an office of 500 where i spend all day in meeting rooms without windows. Throw in going out to get lunch, heading into the supermarket on the way home, meeting a friend for dinner in a busy restaurant and I've had hundreds of contacts in a day

@Frederica852 Are you in a tiny 55m2 room with those people with no ventilation for 7+ hours a day with only one entrance and one exit?

Are you having to approach each of these people and get into their personal space? Are you having to talk to those people for the majority of the day (not just sitting in a large open plan office with them)?

Are you giving out resources to all of those people? Are you collecting in resources from those people and having to touch pencils, books, sheets, laptops, equipment each one of those 500 people have touched?

Are the majority of those 500 people unvaccinated?

Do the people you work with instantly come within a couple of inches distance of you and before you can move away or say anything breathe or even burp in your face (this actually happened to me the week I caught covid)? Do the people you work with have zero sense of personal space? Do the people you work with become very physically upset and angry and come into your personal space?

Do the people you work with have terrible hygiene and probably don’t ever wash their hands or cover their mouths when they sneeze and/or cough?

Are the people you work with notorious for coming in sick? Or notorious for quickly passing on illness or being carriers of a disease all whilst still being asymptomatic?

Do you have to walk down tight narrow corridors filled with hundreds of people shouting and jostling each other, literally pushing up against them each and every day?

Most of your list is CHOICE; the supermarket and dinner with a friend are all within your choosing and control, so that’s your risk level. As is the public transport at a push tbh.

If your office is in anyway comparable to a school then WHY are schools experiencing such huge outbreaks? Why are they the source of so much community transmission? WHY are so many currently struggling to even stay open from the pressure of staff absences? WHY are schools associated with community transmission and not in turn offices?

I know colleagues from other schools who were in ICU during the second lockdown- all while we were vehemently being told that covid just simply couldn’t be transmitted in schools. I am sick of the gaslighting of the entire teaching profession and I’m sick of posts like yours.

Thank you @candlelightsatdawn you’ve again said what I was unable to so eloquently say.

I’m not concerned about myself so much as concerned about the health and survival of my baby. I’m sick of the undertones from some posters that I’m somehow trying to skive from work, have an extended maternity, or that I’m hysterical when up until a few weeks ago pregnant women were told that they should be concerned and cautious. What has changed? Now there are less precautions and from March I will definitely be teaching in rooms with covid positive students.

[quote Mightbeokmightnot]@Frederica852 Are you in a tiny 55m2 room with those people with no ventilation for 7+ hours a day with only one entrance and one exit?

Are you having to approach each of these people and get into their personal space? Are you having to talk to those people for the majority of the day (not just sitting in a large open plan office with them)?

Are you giving out resources to all of those people? Are you collecting in resources from those people and having to touch pencils, books, sheets, laptops, equipment each one of those 500 people have touched?

Are the majority of those 500 people unvaccinated?

Do the people you work with instantly come within a couple of inches distance of you and before you can move away or say anything breathe or even burp in your face (this actually happened to me the week I caught covid)? Do the people you work with have zero sense of personal space? Do the people you work with become very physically upset and angry and come into your personal space?

Do the people you work with have terrible hygiene and probably don’t ever wash their hands or cover their mouths when they sneeze and/or cough?

Are the people you work with notorious for coming in sick? Or notorious for quickly passing on illness or being carriers of a disease all whilst still being asymptomatic?

Do you have to walk down tight narrow corridors filled with hundreds of people shouting and jostling each other, literally pushing up against them each and every day?

Most of your list is CHOICE; the supermarket and dinner with a friend are all within your choosing and control, so that’s your risk level. As is the public transport at a push tbh.

If your office is in anyway comparable to a school then WHY are schools experiencing such huge outbreaks? Why are they the source of so much community transmission? WHY are so many currently struggling to even stay open from the pressure of staff absences? WHY are schools associated with community transmission and not in turn offices?

I know colleagues from other schools who were in ICU during the second lockdown- all while we were vehemently being told that covid just simply couldn’t be transmitted in schools. I am sick of the gaslighting of the entire teaching profession and I’m sick of posts like yours.[/quote]
I didnt mean to offend, apologies. I would try and make a joke about how you've described my colleagues perfectly but I sense that might not be enough to make you smile ☹️
I will call you out on the public transport issue - there's no other way for me to get there and I have to go in rush hour so it is crowded.
Otherwise, I wish you all the best with your pregnancy and I hope you manage to find a way through that works for you x

@Frederica852 that did actually make me laugh to be honest

Thank you and I’m sorry I’m being blunt but the last two years in this profession have felt like asking for help from a brick wall. We have lost so many good teachers. I’m literally only still in it because of the kids I teach.

I promise I’m not this stressy in real life

What has changed is that you’ve been infected and so the chances of being infected again before the end of your pregnancy are zero

@HermioneWeasley

What has changed is that you’ve been infected and so the chances of being infected again before the end of your pregnancy are zero

Well not zero, but certainly substantially reduced. And even is she does catch it, she is extremely unlikely to get severely ill even if heavily pregnant. And the risk to the baby remains minimal.

As for the schools being hotbeds of transmission. Well yes. Mainly because of the high number of unvaccinated people. Particularly in primary schools. However, you can't ethical force vaccines on children, particularly if the evidence is that it is of no benefit to them but puts them at a small increased risk.

You are not assessing the risk accurately - you are cherry picking the bad bits but deliberately coming up with reasons why the good data doesn't apply to you. Thats an emotional response not a logical one which i get.

But thats not the basis on which decisions about health and safety can be made.

If its a real concern to you, go on maternity leave early.

@RedToothBrush the thing is since I assume (and I may be incorrect in that assumption) that we are all parents here on this board.

Now say you were in a selected group because of your job (one which you love) which meant we pulled you and your child out of a line up and I said right I have a gun and I'm going to put it to your child's head - there is a tiny weenie risk that the bullet in it will kill your child. Really small but it's there. Now now don't get emotional, or hysterical, this is the reality of life now. Remember you chose to be in this job, you can leave at anytime but obviously living on air is hard. Not like maternity pay is Brillant let's be frank.

So what percentage of a risk would you be happy with your own child with that gun to their head? Would you be happy with minimal ?

Undoubtedly someone's gonna say it's not the same ect ect and not actually answer because we all know the answer would be, the logistics are the same. It's a emotive topic, just because it's uncomfortable to discuss doesn't mean the logistics aren't what they are. The risk isn't 0, so it's perfectly acceptable for people to say ok I'm happy with minimal risk fire away.

It's also perfectly reasonable to say actually I'm not and ask for WFH accommodations which op has stated others in her school have done.

Everyone needs stop pretending your risk levels are the bar means everyone else is wrong (it's arrogant). Have some empathy for your fellow human beings who aren't of the same risk factor as yourself. OP isn't asking for national lockdown, she's not infringement on your rights, she's asking about her own and people are being really bloody gaslighty and it's not right.

Recognise what your saying to the OP, yes there's risk but it's minimal so just get on with it. Not everyone would shoot that gun, chances are it's easier to say your pal you should do it but when it comes to your children I imagine it wouldnt be such a easy choice.

[quote candlelightsatdawn]@RedToothBrush the thing is since I assume (and I may be incorrect in that assumption) that we are all parents here on this board.

Now say you were in a selected group because of your job (one which you love) which meant we pulled you and your child out of a line up and I said right I have a gun and I'm going to put it to your child's head - there is a tiny weenie risk that the bullet in it will kill your child. Really small but it's there. Now now don't get emotional, or hysterical, this is the reality of life now. Remember you chose to be in this job, you can leave at anytime but obviously living on air is hard. Not like maternity pay is Brillant let's be frank.

So what percentage of a risk would you be happy with your own child with that gun to their head? Would you be happy with minimal ?

Undoubtedly someone's gonna say it's not the same ect ect and not actually answer because we all know the answer would be, the logistics are the same. It's a emotive topic, just because it's uncomfortable to discuss doesn't mean the logistics aren't what they are. The risk isn't 0, so it's perfectly acceptable for people to say ok I'm happy with minimal risk fire away.

It's also perfectly reasonable to say actually I'm not and ask for WFH accommodations which op has stated others in her school have done.

Everyone needs stop pretending your risk levels are the bar means everyone else is wrong (it's arrogant). Have some empathy for your fellow human beings who aren't of the same risk factor as yourself. OP isn't asking for national lockdown, she's not infringement on your rights, she's asking about her own and people are being really bloody gaslighty and it's not right.

Recognise what your saying to the OP, yes there's risk but it's minimal so just get on with it. Not everyone would shoot that gun, chances are it's easier to say your pal you should do it but when it comes to your children I imagine it wouldnt be such a easy choice. [/quote]
My point still stands that as parents we think emotionally, but have to be aware of this impeding our understanding of risk.

And that H&S still has to be logical and based on information and an assessment of the situation.

Yes the op is pregnant and working in a school. But she is boosted and currently has covid. And there is very little in the way that the school can do to mitigate things anyway to continue to do her job because it requires her to be present. A risk assessment is not going to come back with a damning verdict on how the school is failing on h&s, so thats the position the OP has to go from.

She does need to step back and reflect on this precisely because of that emotional issue. Its a hard thing to do but that is also the reality of being a parent. Being able to realisr when you have got wound up to a point that doesn't reflect the situation.

@RedToothBrush and my point still stands that the risk isn't 0, and you still haven't answered the question that was asked ?

You can say ahhh your over inflating it because of emotions all you like. But what would you risk tolerance be with your children ? In the situation I mentioned below would you pull the trigger. It's emotional because death is very finial and although this risk is small it's not 0 is it.

Let's stop pretending it is.

There is no need to put a gun to a child’s head, but there is every need to negotiate risk in order for them to live and learn and thrive. My child might be hit by a car walking to school, or abducted, or get fatal food poisoning from the canteen. I accept these risks as an inevitable part of them living their lives. Covid is the same

Still haven't answered the question. For pregnant women covid is essentially putting a gun to a child's head with a risk of that gun firing.

If you are willing to take this risk great, (much like smokers and cancer ?) but enforcing that on others and gaslighting them that they have no reason to be fearful isn't factually accurate!

[quote candlelightsatdawn]@RedToothBrush and my point still stands that the risk isn't 0, and you still haven't answered the question that was asked ?

You can say ahhh your over inflating it because of emotions all you like. But what would you risk tolerance be with your children ? In the situation I mentioned below would you pull the trigger. It's emotional because death is very finial and although this risk is small it's not 0 is it.

Let's stop pretending it is. [/quote]
I have answered the question.

You just didn't like the answer I gave. I was happy with the answer I gave thanks.

I think its allowing anxiety to get out of control in proportion to the ACTUAL risk and that parents need to be mindful of when they do this, because in certain situations its harmful as when an actual risk exists.

I do not think there is a real risk here. Not in relative terms when you consider all the other risks and complications in pregnancy.

What you are asking me to do is say there is a level of risk which is so high I think is unacceptable for a boosted pregnant women who currently already has covid to be not working. Given I don't think that risk is anywhere near the level thats being suggested, I don't think I need to qualify anything I've said further.

Comparisons about other situations are frankly simply straw men arguements to begin with.

I think the OP needs to manage her anxiety better rather than wfh tbh.

@RedToothBrush 🙄 you are saying the risk is 0 when in actual fact it's your perception of the risk which is totally contrary to the medical statics surrounding this topic and pregnancy and covid and negative outcomes for children. Your entitled to take any risk you seem fit, as are smokers. However the facts and statics are what they are and ignoring them doesn't actually make them disappear.

Even if it does make you feel better and more reassured.

You have though still not answered the question is which telling. If what your trying to say is risk as you perceive in the situation given it 0, your answer would be shoot the gun. But you can't say that because you know factually it's not 0% and in most likely would be making a different choice if it was your child.

Your not in the same position of the OP, you have a different perception of risk re this area and that's fine, just think it's a bit ironic that you seem to be the sort that would grate against someone imposing their views on to you but your doing the same to the OP 🤷🏼‍♀️

Anyway we can agree to disagree.

I'm saying that risk is part of life and that we all need to live with a degree of risk. What we do, is try to manage high risk. I don't think, in relative terms given all the other things we do during the course of a day - including whilst pregnant - that worrying about covid when you are triple jabbed, and recently had (or have covid) is something that should be keeping you awake at night.

If it is, then you should be considering whether your anxiety is out of control and finding ways to cope better.

So yes, I think we will have to agree to disagree. I don't like the item of pregnant women getting into this mindset where everything has to be controlled and you can't be human because of the 'what if'.

Ultimately, the OP could switch to wfh, and then go to the supermarket and still catch covid (stats suggest that going shopping is one of the riskiest things you can do in terms of your risk of catching covid believe it or not).

You can't avoid covid. The idea that you reasonably can, without massively affecting your health in other ways (eg doing much less exercise cos you are wfh), is woefully naive.

Your not in the same position of the OP, you have a different perception of risk re this area and that's fine, just think it's a bit ironic that you seem to be the sort that would grate against someone imposing their views on to you but your doing the same to the OP

Risk does not change on the basis of having different opinions.

Perception of risk is different to actual risk.

If your perception is wildly off, then other people are perfectly entitled to explain this and point it out.

It seems that this is another case of thinking that opinions rather than data are more important. It won't be to an H&S report or a formal risk assessment.

Thats the nub of it. OP disagrees with the law, H&S and school risk assessments because she has a different perception.

Still doesn't change her risk...