Course requires vaccination

[WineGetsMeThroughIt]

There is a training course my office wants to send me on. The course is roughly £1200, so not something I would pay for myself although I really want to go on it. When I called before Christmas to register they told me I must be double vaccinated in order to attend their courses and they were working on updating their rules so that people attending must be triple vaccinated.

Can they legally do this?

I'm not here to get into a big debate about why I'm not vaccinated and or take any abuse about it. I just want to know if a business can legally refuse my business if I'm not vaccinated.

I think they can for now - but soon it will infringe your human rights as a protected characteristic so hopefully for not much longer!

Sadly it was always going to be this way.
The un-vaccinated will be ostracised and the government/ law will turn a blind eye.
There will be lots of "restrictions" for the unvaccinated by summer, just wait and see!

@Arabelladrinkstea

I think they can for now - but soon it will infringe your human rights as a protected characteristic so hopefully for not much longer!

Which protected characteristic would that be, other than a medical exemption which op says she doesn’t have?

I think the concern is is consent but stealth.

Sure it’s a choice whether to be vaccinated, but is it really an informed choice if a person unvaccinated is stopped from accessing jobs, travel, entertainment.

And why don’t we have mandatory HIV tests before we enter a new relationship or go for a new job, particularly if it’s a key work position?

Playing devils advocate here

"They said it was because some member of their staff had underlying medical conditions so they want to protect their instructors."

Try doing proper research first then vaccine does not stop the spread!

Testing before attending would be much safer, and proper precautions.

@MajorCarolDanvers

Yes they can. And good on them protecting their staff.

This.

@Hmum0fthree

"They said it was because some member of their staff had underlying medical conditions so they want to protect their instructors."

Try doing proper research first then vaccine does not stop the spread!

Testing before attending would be much safer, and proper precautions.

vaccination makes the spread much less likely.

and its a choice...choices have consequences.

And why don’t we have mandatory HIV tests before we enter a new relationship or go for a new job, particularly if it’s a key work position?

We do for some jobs, ive had to have several hiv tests for work.

I don’t think it’s a good comparison though, one is a blood test and one is a vaccination. I do however also have to have hepatitis b vaccine.

Dp is making vaccination a condition of employment no exceptions. They are required to travel internationally and other countries have no exemptions. Ditto masks. He's checked with a lawyer, perfectly legal

If it's for medical reasons you would need a dr to certify this, can you?

HIV is one of the few medical conditions that is considered to be a disability under the Equalities Act from the day of diagnosis (the others being cancer & multiple sclerosis). It is therefore a protected characteristic.

I’m sure this is illegal if it was challenged.

“Testing before attending would be much safer, and proper precautions.” If it’s a PCR then yes, lateral flows are pointless.

My nephews are at Uni in the US - they are not allowed on campus unless they are fully vaccinated and they can’t go to any classes without evidence of their vaccinations.

I don't think they can. Msg me if you need legal help i can signpost. Your body.. Your choice.

Which protected characteristic would that be, other than a medical exemption which op says she doesn’t have?

Potentially "religion or belief", depending on the reason the OP has decided not be vaccinated. Given ethical veganism is protected under this characteristic, I can certainly see that it would be possible to make an argument that being oppossed to vaccination is also covered.

Ultimately it'll need test cases to go through to the courts to establish whether that is the case or not, but I think it could be plausibly argued.

As an example of what I mean about a 'religion or belief' which may be relevant, an elderly relative of mine refused to take any drugs developed after a certain date* because she was fundamentally oppossed to animal testing. She was in protest groups, all sorts. I suspect this might count as a valid religion or belief in this context.

I also know one Catholic who has declined mRNA vaccines because foetal cell lines were used in the development process. Is this the official Vatican view? No. But that doesn't stop it from being a sincerely held religion or belief.

It's also worth noting that the definition of the protected characteristic 'disability' is very much broader than the reasons someone cannot have a vaccine as per the Green Book. If someone had ongoing, diagnosed anxiety which impacted on their daily life, and which also prevented them from getting a vaccine, then they could argue that their non-vaccinated status was due to their disability.

Ultimately, how compelling any of these arguments might be would be for the courts to decide. But it's an oversimplification to say, 'they can require this' because, depending on an individual's reason for declining, doing so could amount to discrimination.

(*The date allowed her to continue taking all the medications she needed for her chronic conditions, whilst being utterly sanctimonious to everyone around her.)

Find another provider or do a course online.

@WineGetsMeThroughIt

There is a training course my office wants to send me on. The course is roughly £1200, so not something I would pay for myself although I really want to go on it. When I called before Christmas to register they told me I must be double vaccinated in order to attend their courses and they were working on updating their rules so that people attending must be triple vaccinated.

Can they legally do this?

I'm not here to get into a big debate about why I'm not vaccinated and or take any abuse about it. I just want to know if a business can legally refuse my business if I'm not vaccinated.

Fair enough. Just have the vaccines

Employers can introduce clauses in contracts to require staff be vaccinated

So if they can do that

Then yes, they can do the same for customers, on the same ground as for their employees

@Flyonawalk

I think anti-discrimination laws forbid this, but a lot of laws are being bent or ignored at the moment.

It is rightly against the law to bar people from using a service because of race, religion, sexuality, weight etc.

Medical discrimination is unlawful too. I don’t think a business can deny services to someone on the grounds that they are HIV positive, for example. Discrimination over vaccination status is still discrimination.

The DDA was unique when it was passed in that it allows discrimination in favour of a disabled person.

If they have an employee who is at risk then they can introduce rules to help shield that person.

In addition a business can introduce 'eligibility' rules eg cruise providers have introduced lots of measures including proof of vaccination and testing before boarding.

Lots of jobs and many uni courses require vaccination, the people who handle animals in airports have rabies vaccination, student HCP have vaccinations.

@KeepingAnOpenMind

I’m sure this is illegal if it was challenged.

On what basis?

Am I right in thinking that employers can require vaccination as a condition if employment? I think dismissal could be unlawful, I think the employer would have to find a safer means of working for the unvaccinated person.

So therefore, in terms of a course - you would be able to specify requirements to attend, or potentially find an alternative way to attend for unvaccinated. But wouldn’t be able to dismiss an unvaccinated person if already on the course??
However if you are already employed and you need to do the course for your job?? That’s a tricky one. I think your employer would need to find an alternative way for you to access the course.

They probably can, but I don't agree with it.